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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 29, 2013 11:22:58 GMT -5
All TaoTao 50cc scooters are from he11 . Please be more specific... ;D
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 29, 2013 11:21:25 GMT -5
From your description it almost sounds like you have no compression. Did you mean that the starter turns the engine over REALLY fast? And when you kick the kickstart there is very little resistance? It almost sounds like a bad/broken/burnt valve or similar. Just my $0.02...
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 22:45:29 GMT -5
If its the same size it should "work" but then again duct tape "works" to hold a muffler on. For a while... I would think that if it is the same diameter than you should be ok- The contra spring I installed was a 1500rpm spring and it was quite a bit longer than my stock spring (like 2 inches) when they sat uncompressed. It was a real pain trying to get that clutch assembly back on- then the belt.
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 22:41:44 GMT -5
[replyingto=jtgolden]jtgolden[/replyingto]There is a timing mark on the flywheel (the side of the crank that the variator is NOT on - the right side of the engine if you're sitting on the bike) there are several lines and a "T" for TDC.  (it's kinda hard to see here but when you get the cover off you should see the "T" mark. Line this up and with the valve cover removed make sure that the cam sproket has the big hole on top and the 2 little holes lines up with the top of your head.  If all that is lines up then your timing is good. If it's even one tooth off the little holes will not line up properly with the top of the head. *The images are not mine, I borrowed them from ebay.globaldc.com/scooterparts/borekits/100ccGY6/install/bbk.html* |
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 22:30:16 GMT -5
Check for spark- remove the plug and try cranking it *making sure that the plug is grounded to the valve cover or some other engine ground. You could also try spraying a little starter fluid directly into the inlet of the carb. If it starts (or tries) with starter fluid it's not getting gas. I had a similar intermittent cut off and no start problem shortly after installing my bbk- come to find out the previous owner had cut the cdi wires for some reason and taped them back together- the tape had started to come off and they were shorting against each other. This caused the plug not to fire but only when I was leaning the bike over a little  |
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 19:50:58 GMT -5
[replyingto=brandjur]brandjur[/replyingto]Thanks for the cvt explanation. There are very few cars that use a similar setup (the Honda CRV uses a cvt- not sure of any others). I actually had a grasp of the way it works before when I worked at a scooter shop but it's been a few years and without seeing it it was baffling to me. It's a simple setup, when you think about it, but hey... anyway today when I installed the contra spring and the clutch springs- along with 5g slider rollers- i started the bike without the tranny cover on it and "ran it through the gears" and it all came back to me. Still having the air/fuel mixture issue but man does it run up at ~40mph in a hurry now! When I give it WOT from a stop the rpms run right up to the limiter and hold while the bike jumps right up to about 40. I got up to 42 going down a hill but thats cheating. Think I'm gonna try the 6g sliders now that I've got the power... I installed my old  # main jet and didn't get much of a difference- still getting some popping when I come off WOFT from high speed. When I snap the throttle it will bog down a little then rev- when the rpms come back down it runs a little slow then settles at the proper idle speed. Thanks for all the input guys, I REALLY appreciate it! |
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 10:49:48 GMT -5
[replyingto=scoots]scoots[/replyingto]I'm not sure exactly where the wleds are either but I know that the engine mounts are on the *other* side of the cylinder, meaning when you go to install it they will be about 10" in the wrong place. From what I've heard you have to fabricate some sort of bracket and weld it onto the frame- also the shortcase 150 is maybe an inch or so longer so the rear bracket might need adjustment as well. Not to mention you have to replace the wiring harness. It really is a project. From what I could gather it is often a lot easier to just begin with a shortcase 150 entire bike and replace a lot of the parts to make it appear as a 50cc bike. i.e. replace the speedo, remove and replace any 150cc identification ("vin" plate, stickers, etc). That's probably what I would do if I was gonna go for it. I live in NC and NOTHING is required for 49cc and under (no insurance, no tags, no drivers license) but if you get caught with a larger displacement motor (unlikey) or doing more than say 35mph (legally 30mph- and a lot more likely but has never happened to me *knock on wood) they can and usually do throw the book at you- tickets for driving with no license (if you dont have one), no insurance, no tags, etc.
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 7:45:27 GMT -5
I'm actually wondering the same thing- I know when you hit the rev limiter on a car it cuts spark which is a very distinct and odd sensation- it's almost as is you're getting a dead misfire (which you effectively are) at a rightly high rpm. I'm assuming it has to be similar on a scooter but I don't know that I've ever experienced it...
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 28, 2013 7:20:25 GMT -5
Don't think you have much choice other than to break it down. Do you have a compression tester? Give that a whirl if so- but from the sound of it it seems as though you have either a stuck/toasted piston ring(s) or a shot/obstructed valve. One thing you might try is removing the valve cover and setting the piston to ***bottom dead center*** You can verify by inserting a straw into the cylinder where the spark plug should go and rotating until it wont go down anymore. Next take a rubber dead blow mallet and gently tap the valve stems down to effectively open the valves. If there is a carbon deposit or something similar stuck in the valve seat it will probably knock it loose. You may also be able to tell by excessive play in the valve clearance with the piston at *top* dead center but you might need a feeler gauge to check this. Just throwing out some ideas...
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 27, 2013 23:45:31 GMT -5
[replyingto=brandjur]brandjur[/replyingto]Thanks for the tips. I'll try adjusting the needle but I dont think I need a bigger main jet, as i said im rich not lean. This carb came with an # jet but i installed an  # and thats the one im running and running rich with now. My old carb is an epa carb and i cannot get the bottom off to check/change the jet without cutting it open... even though i guess i dont need it so i suppose i could cut it. Think I'll try the # jet first. As far as the drivetrain- I havent yet installed the torque spring... what exactly does it do? It puts pressure on the variator to keep it from spreading (speeding up) right? How does this affect performance? My sliders havent been installed yet either- but I didnt know you could mix and match them but now that you mention it makes sense. Thanks for the tip! |
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 27, 2013 21:06:46 GMT -5
[replyingto=tvnacman]tvnacman[/replyingto]I'll give it another good once over tomorrow. I'm pretty sure vacuum is good as I replaced all lines due to rot and secured with quality hose clamps. As a side note- for whatever reason my kick start never worked before the bbk install. It would turn the engine over fine but I could kick it all day and it would never crank- even with starter fluid. Compression was fine in my old cylinder so idk what that was about- but now it will kick right up the first time it hits the compression stroke. I actually was turning the engine over with the kick start right after i put it back together (to test for interference or anything wrong with reassembly) and was ever so gently turning it over when, by mistake, i started the motor. I was holding the brake and didnt realize the key was on (even though the battery was disconnected). LOL- it startled me because I never got it to work before but imagine my delight when my hard work sprang to life before I even expected it to! =)
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 27, 2013 20:47:21 GMT -5
[replyingto=tvnacman]tvnacman[/replyingto]Thanks for the tip, John. I'll check the o-ring but it's a brand new carb. I'm wondering if it's not due to the # jet I installed? maybe it's too big? The carb came with an # jet which might have actually been more appropriate because I think the stock 49cc jet is smaller than that if I'm correct? It is still running rich because I get backfires after WOT like I said and if I snap the throttle it bogs down before settling at idle. A lean condition should run higher rpms before settling after a snapping the throttle... What do you think about the jet size? |
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 27, 2013 20:44:41 GMT -5
[replyingto=scoots]scoots[/replyingto]Thats what I was wondering- but how do I take the baffle out? It seems to be inside the muffler and the whole thing is welded shut. Do I have to cut it and weld it back or what? I can take the muffler off no problem but after I took off all of the silly looking chrome stuff it's all welds from there... where is this baffle if not physically inside the muffler?
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 27, 2013 20:31:45 GMT -5
Yeah I was just looking into that- what's up with chopping the pipe? I read about people drilling them, what would I need to do? Where do I drill out? I don't really have another $100+ to dump into a performance exhaust right now...
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Post by sickopsycho on Jul 27, 2013 20:03:51 GMT -5
I just installed a bbk (72cc) and love it. I am a trained automotive mechanic and was METICULOUS with my install. I pulled the engine, cleaned and degreased it, replaced cylinder and piston using assembly lube in a CLEAN work area and torqued everything down to spec. There were no instructions regarding the piston rings so I went with the old reliable (one compression had a silver edge, it went on top- all ring gaps were 180 degrees from each other). I even removed carbon from my head/valves before reinstall. I broke it in per retailers instructions which were simply vary the throttle for the first 50 miles and no extended WOT. I actually ran 100 miles or so under these conditions. Anyway it has quite a bit more pulling power now but I don't seem to be able to hit top speed anymore (since the bbk install). I get right up to to the edge of my speedo but even going downhill it wont seem to peg the needle. Before the bbk install the needle would (eventually) peg when going downhill. Now it will get up there and get there quick- even hold pretty much 40mph uphill but won't seem to go any faster. I'm pretty sure I'm not hitting the rev limiter- I'm just not sure whats up. I have a hot coil and wire plus an iridium plug, I have a brand new name brand Keihn or something carb with a # main jet installed with a short ram performance air filter. My exhaust is stock. I also purchased a 1500rpm set of clutch springs and and 1500rpm torque spring along with a set of 5gram slider rollers that I havent installed yet. I think the rollers I have in there now are 5 gram and I don't think I'll get any more speed out of the springs (clutch or torque). Any advice? Funny side note- my carb... I went to tune the air/fuel mixture and it's acting funny. It ran well at the factory setting but I thought maybe a little rich. I let the bike warm up completely and adjusted the idle to just before the clutch started to engage. I turned the mixture adjust all the way clockwise (to lean it out) and this would normally cause the bike to cut off. Instead, as I turned it right, the idle continued to increase until the screw was bottomed out. The way I'm used to tuning this carb you turn the screw all the way right until the engine almost dies and then *slowly* back it back to the left (to richen the mixture) and listen to the idle. It will increase to a point then pretty much stop before it begins to decrease again. The point at which the idle is the fastest is pretty much stoich (the proper setting). I can't seem to tune it since the best setting seems to be lower than it can go. Would this be because of the bigger main jet I installed? If so is there a way to tune this carb? I also noticed that with the mixture adjust almost all the way closed (turned to the right) the idle is the fastest there but when I come off of WOT I get more backfires as if it's even richer? ? I'm totally confused. Any help would be greatly appreciated.  |
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# main jet and didn't get much of a difference- still getting some popping when I come off WOFT from high speed. When I snap the throttle it will bog down a little then rev- when the rpms come back down it runs a little slow then settles at the proper idle speed. Thanks for all the input guys, I REALLY appreciate it!
# and thats the one im running and running rich with now. My old carb is an epa carb and i cannot get the bottom off to check/change the jet without cutting it open... even though i guess i dont need it so i suppose i could cut it. Think I'll try the