Freshman Rider
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Down but not out
Posts: 89 
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Joined: Jan 5, 2016 21:15:02 GMT -5
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Post by ungabunga on May 11, 2017 22:15:11 GMT -5
as a guy who sells tires (as well as automotive services), for a living, I say a resounding DON'T DO IT!
If it's an absolute last resort just to limp to the shop to get a new hoop, you might be ok, but it's never a permanent fix on a motorcycle (including scooters), unless you have a car tire on the back, which is in itself another issue entirely.
Here's the reason: when it comes to car tires, one should never, ever put a plug in the shoulder of the tire. When plugging a tire, you should only do so in the area between the shoulders and no closer to the shoulder than about a thumb's width. the shoulder is where the sidewall and tread surface meet as well as where the cords inside transition from going bead to bead, to having a top layer going around the circumference of the tire. Since the sidewall is where your suspension pretty much starts and it is bearing the weight of the vehicle and passengers, compromising the connecting area between the sidewall and treadsurface (the shoulder), is unwise.
Transitioning back to motorcycles, the tread surface on motorcycle tires is pretty much all shoulder since they don't have a flat area on the tread surface. that being the case, there really is no safe place to plug or patch these tires.
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Post by pistonguy on May 12, 2017 9:26:20 GMT -5
as a guy who sells tires (as well as automotive services), for a living, I say a resounding DON'T DO IT! If it's an absolute last resort just to limp to the shop to get a new hoop, you might be ok, but it's never a permanent fix on a motorcycle (including scooters), unless you have a car tire on the back, which is in itself another issue entirely. Here's the reason: when it comes to car tires, one should never, ever put a plug in the shoulder of the tire. When plugging a tire, you should only do so in the area between the shoulders and no closer to the shoulder than about a thumb's width. the shoulder is where the sidewall and tread surface meet as well as where the cords inside transition from going bead to bead, to having a top layer going around the circumference of the tire. Since the sidewall is where your suspension pretty much starts and it is bearing the weight of the vehicle and passengers, compromising the connecting area between the sidewall and treadsurface (the shoulder), is unwise. Transitioning back to motorcycles, the tread surface on motorcycle tires is pretty much all shoulder since they don't have a flat area on the tread surface. that being the case, there really is no safe place to plug or patch these tires. Well sure from a sales point or a large national retailer of tires like National Tire and Battery or Discount tire your in business to Sell tires, there very little money to be made plunging tires and if ya tried to slap a minimum labor fee on it customers would complain it costs to much. I would also venture to say those large retailers have a store policy Not to Plug tires, probably some Liability issues come up, even if a customer pleads to plug it if there is a later issue especially if someone gets hurt in march the Lawyers. Im in a rural part of the country at the moment and there are Used tire shops working out of a dozen locations across the county, red neck weekend flea marketers selling used tires and they plug-em all day long. for real service shops right here in town plug tires everyday with no issues. people are just no going to pony up and buy a new tire when they spent a Benjamin or more on a new tire in the last couple years. Lancaster PA, I sure could crush a Warm Shoe-Fly-Pie right now |
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Post by cyborg55 on May 12, 2017 13:38:27 GMT -5
All bmw motorcycles come with a plug kit,,, stock ,,, and is a shoe fly pie?
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Post by ricardoguitars on May 12, 2017 17:24:17 GMT -5
I rode my scooter with a plugged rear tire for more than a year, until the tire was worn and I had to replace it, no issues at all, after some time you couldn't tell where the plug was, it disappeared.
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Post by w650 on May 13, 2017 4:41:42 GMT -5
I plugged a tire on a 600 pound Kawasaki and it lasted just fine through its service life. I don't know about these new radial tires they have on bikes but I would do it on them too. The darn things are just too expensive to toss without trying it.
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Post by Jarlaxle on May 13, 2017 5:13:27 GMT -5
I would plug the tires on my Burg and not worry about it...but not a steel-belted tire, except as an emergency fix. (The belts can cut the plug.)
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Post by tvnacman on May 13, 2017 5:16:17 GMT -5
I had a small nail in my front tire, I plugged it. The valve stem was dry rotted too. I broke the bead and squeezed the tire, pulled out the old stem and pushed the new one in.
John
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Post by chewbaca on May 13, 2017 6:12:41 GMT -5
Well I guess we are all going to heck Endangering all the poor nuns and kittens and little children With reckless common sense like that.   |
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Post by pistonguy on May 13, 2017 11:08:24 GMT -5
Well I guess we are all going to heck Endangering all the poor nuns and kittens and little children With reckless common sense like that. Good stuff Chewy.  |
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Post by cyborg55 on May 13, 2017 17:50:42 GMT -5
lol there's a bone when I get to a computer instead of my phone,,, the safety seal plugs when I pull them out thru the hole I cut with snap on side cuts and it be a chore,,, it's s nylon whozit type cord,,, very tough. I've had no problems with them,,, but as stated above,,, no sidewalls,,, and a hole not a rip or any other kind of problem but s simple hole I'm pluggin
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Post by rockynv on Jun 4, 2017 15:43:52 GMT -5
The plugs even for car tires are temporary to get you to a tire shop to have the tire dismounted and patched from the inside even on the BMW's.
Yes some people do get away with abusing plugs but the failure rate of externally applied plugs is too high to make them guaranteed safe so regardless of how many other folks rolled that dice and won you are still taking a chance that you will among the 10 or 20 percent that will have a failure.
On a car its usually not that big an issue as you see the tire is low and refill it or finally have the tire replaced however on a bike having one tire go low and wobbly at highway speeds even if you do not have a blowout can be fatal. Add in some really hot roads and plugging can be a recipe for disaster.
A local attorney John Newsome I believe is his name has a number of warehouses full of rolled cars as part of the evidence locker being built against the tire industry in general for selling old new tires or plugging/patching unsafe tires and putting them back on the road. There may be a major shakeup coming making it illegal to service a tire that has a plug in it due to all the rollover accidents, injuries and deaths that have been recorded over the past few decades.
I understand some people get really rabid about this and have no qualms about causing others to incur losses however that is basically what you are doing when you encourage known unsafe behavior. If someone puts in a temporary plug as a long term solution at your cavalier recommendation are you financially able and willing to pay for any losses that are incurred? If not then think twice about making the recommendation.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jun 4, 2017 18:42:46 GMT -5
you only have 2 of them, sudden air loss in either of them would be unnerving to say the least.
i hear similar things about putting inner tubes in tubeless tires.
some say aye, some say nay.
if you really want to talk about unsafe, then what about semi recaps?
i can't imagine what it would feel like to see a big chunk of that crap snaking its way right at me on a bike.
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Post by rockynv on Jun 5, 2017 3:50:28 GMT -5
Here is what can happen if the rear tire fails:
This guy should have checked the rear and almost went over the embankment as the bike drifted off to the left into what could have been oncoming traffic.
A little faster or a bit softer sidewall and these could have been fatalities.
If the front fails suddenly many may not be able to hang on and keep from going over. Some get fooled when they are down below 10 mph and almost stopped that they are really safe and then go down because centrifugal force is no longer keeping the tire centered on the rim and it really starts squirming.
Even in these mild cases both riders were extremely shaken by how close a call it actually was.
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Post by w650 on Jun 6, 2017 9:11:37 GMT -5
It's something no one will ever agree on. Many of us have plugged with success while many others wouldn't dream of doing it. Yes, replacing the tire is the safer way to go but as Rocky's videos prove the safest thing to do is not ride on two wheels at all. After all that's the safest thing to do. Even an unplugged tire could fail on you too.
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Post by rockynv on Jun 12, 2017 0:34:24 GMT -5
It's something no one will ever agree on. Many of us have plugged with success while many others wouldn't dream of doing it. Yes, replacing the tire is the safer way to go but as Rocky's videos prove the safest thing to do is not ride on two wheels at all. After all that's the safest thing to do. Even an unplugged tire could fail on you too. That's why following "Best Practice" in tire maintenance and keeping fresh less than 3 year old tires on motorcycles and scooters is so critical. It goes a long way toward preventing so many of the single vehicle motorcycle accidents or the one rider going down from a failed tire in a group scenario and taking down everyone near to him. I was reviewing the way tire speed ratings are tested with someone the other day and they are determined based on a ten minute test spinning the perfectly inflated loaded tire against a steel drum at the rated speed without having a failure. Put a plug in and most authorities agree the tires speed rating is cut at least in half so your 94 mph P rated tire once plugged is past its limit at 48 mph and then again possibly 38 or even below 18 mph depending on the quality and freshness of the plug along with the adhesive and how good a job the person who installed it did. There are really no guarantees on how long a DIY emergency plug will last. The honest truth is - You might or may not make it limping to the shop and then again you may make it much longer but its a gamble with your life on the line. As Dirty Harry would say: "Do you feel lucky?" |
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