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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 16, 2014 23:59:30 GMT -5
And just to make it easier, the colors for the tach are as follows:
Trigger/pick-up wire: Yellow with a black stripe
12v Power: Solid Black
12v Ground: Soild Green
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 16, 2014 23:53:51 GMT -5
You may also need a flywheel/stator puller. I seen one on this board the other day that was made for 50cc on one side, 125/150cc on the other side. Wish I could find the link....
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 16, 2014 13:15:16 GMT -5
Well my hat's off too you. I don't relish the thought of poring through documents of changlish to research this, so thank you for doing the leg work for me.
A good source for Information on these scooters are Chinese sites like Alibaba.com... However, do not be lured by price, service and quality is bottom of the barrel.
I looked all over the web for information about my stator/magneto... Finally found some info on a Chinese site that google translated. My 12-pole DC stator is only 120 watts! (Yes I know stators only produce A/C)
I will. My first step is to test it as is. Fix or no Fix, the Mukini is then going on.... If Neither the Vacuum Line repair or the Mukini fix it, next step is either a fuel pump or gas tank relocation (Switching to gravity).
Also, I will for sure keep everyone updated. If we figure out the problem, were not just fixing our scoots but also everyone else who reads these threads and has this problem.......
I somehow screwed up my post quotes... I put my text in bold.... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 16, 2014 12:21:10 GMT -5
Wow Dan, you've done your research that's for sure! I was unaware that the B case wasn't made. That makes sense. One thing tho, my scoot is a DC fired coil. I haven't checked my stator yet so I do wonder if it's an 11 or 8 pole... I'll for sure be pulling the fan off tomorrow to check. I have tried to research these engines to the best I could, but the availability of information is sketchy at best. The problems are, because the parts are manufactured in China, most of the literature is also in Chinese and from the way things appear, the Chinese aren't big on translating their documentation into English. I have tried contacting Bintelli (about 4 four times) trying to find a parts diagram of my engine. I have also emailed the Parent company of Bintelli, (Road Rat Motors) seeking information and neither even bothered to respond... My Havoc is is awesome scoot, I feel like the manufacturer of my scooter isn't worthy the quality of my scooter. If Bintelli got into the game and made parts available (direct to customer) and published info so people could get the right parts, they truly are scooters that you could keep going for a LONG, LONG time. I've had a lot of scoots in my day, but none the quality of these Havocs. So, most of what I have dug up so far has all been 2nd hand info published across the web. On that note, take what I say with a grain of salt. The line I replaced was not damaged from impact or anything like that, it was dry rotted and in several spots there was leaks. This is not something new. However, the scooter runs near perfect, unless you hit it at WOT. I don't know how these scooters work on that level... All I know is the line was dry rotted, with exposures and needed to be replaced irregardless.  The Mikuni Pump should be here monday, so Im hoping one of them fixes the issue and the MiKuni is going on anyways... I'm wondering if I should re-route fuel lines also (to reduce how much the pump has to work)...... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 21:16:25 GMT -5
I wouldn't do that, your carb will end up clogged up with fish scales.   LOL. While I appreciate everyone's responses, I personally would not use Fish Tank hose.  |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 19:54:56 GMT -5
If it ran good say months ago and just recently started this cutting out I think you found the culprit that is causing vacuum loss at sustained wot. Thats the thing, I didn't buy it brand new. I bought it used from Grand Rapids Scooter (Jason was selling it on consignment)... But it was in like new condition with right around 100 miles on it. It's a 2011. I was really surprised to discover this hose in this condition because when I purchased the scoot, first thing I did was inspect the lines. But this was dry rot and was not new. I just missed it on my first inspection. It has done this the entire time I've owned the scooter. It could be the reason the original owner sold it in fact My wife has got to the point where she knows just where she can keep the throttle without causing it to cut out. Of course that slows how fast we can go. And that's why I'm glad guys (and maybe even gals) like you all are around to help out! Cause if this vacuum hose didn't fix the problem, I will need to pick your brains! Check out this thread started by Katastroff. Look at his avatar. Look at XyShannens Avatar. We are all having the same issue.... Coincidence? My opinion, No. I would bet I could find more on this board as well If I got to digging through old threads. Do you know how to install an electronic fuel pump in a scooter with a fuel delivery setup like mine? |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 19:37:44 GMT -5
I got a message from a member asking about this pump.
If you have a floor mounted gas tank and having issues with your stock pump (carburetor bowl gets empty on long stretch at WOT), get one of these.
I was the member. I too have a Scooter that looks very similar to Katastroff's (not the one in my avatar), except mine is a 150cc. However, the fuel delivery system I would wager is identical. Another thing Identical was my scoot cuts out at WOT (Wide open throttle). There are other members on this board with the same scoot, having the same issue. I have ordered a Mikuni pump and will post the results once I get it on and installed! Thanks for starting this thread and spreading the word! |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 19:02:48 GMT -5
What did you mean with this? Cold temp wise or Cold motor? Is what I mean is that I can go out to garage, fire the scoot right up with no cranking, and it will sit there and purr like a kitten... Ok, 5 minutes later, she's warmed up and I go out riding.... Scooters is running perfectly at this point... I hit the road... Open the throttle all the way and I can drive for maybe 1 mile, or 20 miles, but at some point and completely random (and without fail I'll add), The engine will just seem to die. If I only tried backing the throttle down 1/8~1/4, she would stall. I have to completely back off the throttle and then she comes back to life... I can then drive another 1, or even 20 miles and then it will happen again. Now, take note, I have already tried adjusting the air/fuel mix, in both directions. Turning it one way caused the engine to rev up and down and turning it the other way, it acted as if I was adjusting the idle screw because the back wheel would start spinning, I tried to compensate the wheel spin by also adjusting the idle screw, but then the engine would just stall. Put both screws back to original and she runs as if new, that is until you hit the road at WOT. I'm like 99% sure the problem stems from a loss of Vacuum at sustained WOT. I may have discovered where that Vacuum leak was coming from... I will not be able to know until I get good weather. It is not something I can test out in the garage. If this Vacuum line doesn't fix it, I will keep trying things till I get the problem licked. Next up is a fuel pump swap, if that doesn't work, I'm going to relocate a new gas tank to above the carb. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 18:43:31 GMT -5
As of today, I've made 4 orders from PartsforScooters.com and haven't had a single complaint. They ship fast and product is always as described. While they may not be the cheapest (price), their selection is quite extensive.
*note I haven't had to return anything yet so i can not speak to that aspect.
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 16:12:26 GMT -5
Dmartin, Yes if that Vacuum hose going to the ACV valve on the carb was leaking it will cause problems. To verify if the fuel is being pumped to the carb good, take the Fuel hose off the carb and put it in a container and crank the motor over. If the fuel streams out then your ok with the way it is setup. I personally do not like those kind of setups because the fuel has to go up to the fuel pump for the pump to have fuel to pump. So the pump is actually trying to do TWO things suck fuel from the tank to the pump and then pump the fuel to the carb. I read what Shannen said about a bigger carb that it would get rid of the Vacuum line that was bad, that would be true if the carb had a pump. Most carbs have the ACV valve to feed fuel on deceleration to stop backfiring, popping and running lean when the throttle is suddenly closed . Alleyoop Alleyoop Alley, thanks for the feedback! I kind of went on rambling in my video so thanks for taking the time to view it. The scooter starts, idles and runs perfect until it gets driven at WOT... And when it cuts out at WOT is completely Random and does not happen when it's cold.... The Scooter is getting fuel and pulling the fuel line wouldn't reveal much because this is an issue that only happens at WOT... I mean seriously, If I just started this thing up and was showing it someone, they would never be able to tell it has any kind of issue. Or is there some reason I'm not understanding why you want me to pull the fuel line off? When it comes the electricals of a scoot, all I need is the wiring diagram and a multi-meter and I can guarantee that I can find even the most stubbornest of Gremlins.... But when it comes to internals of these GY6's I'm very new to this and really appreciate you explaining what this stuff is and how it works... No worries about me screwing anything up with Mods, like a BBK or bigger carbs.... Not because I don't like that kind of stuff, but just because it's something I've never done before and would need to learn before I go ripping into my scoot. Now that I have repaired that Vacuum line, the problem may be fixed altogether... If that didn't fix it, either there's a design flaw in that style of fuel delivery system (I say that based on other who have the same style of scoot with the same exact problem), carb gremlin of fuel pump gremlin... You've been doing these forums for a long time I assume? How many other threads have you seen with people losing power at WOT with these types of scoots? And just for the record, I will not be getting involved in any pissing matches. When it comes to these scoots, I will yield the high ground to you every-time and take what you say with seriousness. I know how these forums work and know your sharing this advice on your dime and your time... I would not have you wasting time on me in a pissing match! I have no doubt you know your stuff and appreciate it! |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 15, 2014 15:47:04 GMT -5
I have to wonder why yours (the Heritage) has the B case. I guess they upped their quality from my year, 2008 to yours. I mean to look at it, we have the same exact scooter. Just for fun...my name is Shannen,,the xy eliminates confusion on the boards that I might be a chick.....it happens  I'm not sure why we have different motors, but if I had to wager a guess, I would say it's one of two things... From what I have gathered, the GY6-B case was introduced in 2007 by BenNeng of Zhongneng Industry group. Yours being a 2008, and even actually manufactured in 07, or even 06, it could be the case that the engine just wasn't available then.... Second, even though our scoots look identical, they could be assembled by different suppliers spitting copies, of copies.... What I mean by that is my Scooter is a Yamaha Zuma "Clone". The Bintelli havoc looks a lot like the zuma, but there's also other distributor's selling other clones of the ZUMA such as the Roketa MC-31--150cc , Here's one that's even electric.... So even though our scoots look a-like, they could have very different internals... The B case engine in the heritage has a 12-pole, DC stator/magneto for example. Yours I would wager is 8-pole and is AC, not DC. However, there's also a lot if similarities. If you look at Katasroffs Scoot, Yours, MY wifes Heritage, in addition to looking a like, they all have the same fuel delivery system and all have the problem of cutting out at WOT.. ---------------------------- My name BTW is Dan, I go by Dmartin95 because it's the same handle I use on all internet forums. I'm an administrator at thespaceport.us and prefer using these types of forums, instead of facebook and such..... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 14, 2014 22:25:41 GMT -5
In the Video I call my coil a CDI, just a brain fart.
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 14, 2014 22:16:30 GMT -5
Any leak espescially Vacuum leak will DRAMTICALLY effect pumping fuel to the carb IF your scooter has a FUEL PUMP(Gas tank Lower than the Carb). Alleyoop Hey Alley, I went to get some pics of the fuel assembly and realized I would need a lot of pictures, so I just made a quick youtube video detailing the entire fuel layout and illustrating what Vacuum line I replaced. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 14, 2014 15:46:45 GMT -5
No, the season isn't over just yet... But it's getting close. It's been raining a lot lately and I haven't been able to ride though... Kind of Bummed too because I wanted to test out some mods.
If I can squeeze in the time, I'll install the vac gauge and fill ya in the results... If I can get to it, before the snow flies that is....
I discovered a damaged vacuum line when I went to take some pics on my wifes BMS heritage... It's a line that runs to the fuel pump from the carb.... I'll get pics later but I really wanna get out and ride this thing and see if it helped, or maybe even fixed the problem.
However, I'm still going to order the Mikuni Pulse pump because it's a better pump.
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 14, 2014 15:39:36 GMT -5
When I arrived at the auto store, all they had was really thick Gates hoses... None of the see through fuel line like I was hoping for....
I bought 10' of each, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4 and 5/16..... It is about 3 times thicker than the hose I replaced. It looks very durable and I may just replace the entire fuel/vacuum lines with the stuff...... It wasn't as cool looking as the stuff I wanted, but I think the hose I got will outlast the life of the scooter.
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