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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 14, 2014 12:15:37 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity..with your vacuum gauge, have you seen the vacuum drop to zero? It's my wife's Retro Style Scoot (BMS Heritage) that cuts out at WOT, not my Bintelli Havoc. I do not have a vacuum gauge installed on her scooter, yet. I did however pick one up for her scoot (12 bucks is hard to resist) and will eventually get around to installing on her scoot... Here in Michigan we have some pretty long and cold winters, I'll have plenty of time to wrench on all my scoots then. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 13, 2014 9:26:20 GMT -5
All I can say is in my case I've replaced every component possible in regards to the engine and still have the problem so you might be on to something. Luckily, Katastroff is a member here as well scootdawg... I was able to track him down through the Personal Message system of this board. He replied last night and said the Mikuni fuel pump did fix his problem.... At only 25~30 bucks, I'm ordering one today. Here's a video on the installation of the Mikuni pump: |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 13, 2014 9:00:15 GMT -5
I was going to run up to the auto parts to get some fuel and vacuum line/hoses for my scooter.
I would also like to have some extra on hand for the future. So what sizes should I stock up on?
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 19:03:40 GMT -5
DM this is a vac actuated fuel valve it is only opened when there is vac to pull the diaphragm and allow fuel flow . The auto one is the one under my tank and is very common . I have seen this under the tank in absent of the vac valve , but still mounted above the carb . I don't think the little pump has the umph to push furl up to the carb when the tank is below the carb . John Your first link isn't working... It just opens a Shopping cart.... Are you linking to one like this (first link):  |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 18:59:45 GMT -5
dmartin95 It's operation still relies on vacuum and our problem stems from loosing vacuum at WOT. Now if someone would chime in on a way to fix the root of the cause "loss of vacuum" that would be great. "loss of vacuum" could imply many things. A leak in the air hose, a bad clamp, faulty petcock, clogged evap canister, etc etc...... I have started to think the loss of vacuum is not carb/air intake/etc etc.... related I think there is a design flaw in these specific Retro style scoots with the tank on the bottom.... I've seen too many threads on these types of forums, all with the same problem... They lose power at WOT.. I start to see a pattern, or commonality if you will..... Now, as to where that loss of vacuum is coming from, I think it's this specific part:  ------------------------------------------------- Of course, I am just guessing by trying to find the common denominator ... I have been seeking a thread where someone with this specific issue chimes in and says; I fixed it by doing X. The thread that I linked to, the guy suggesting the Mikuni Pump seemed like he had seen the issue before and that our type of pump maybe the culprit.... I can't find the link, but I saw it another thread as well..... Do you have a guess as to why it losses vacuum at WOT? ------------------------------------------------ Alley -- I will get pictures of my scoots fuel layout... I have it up on the lift but went to do it and realized my wife had her saddlebags secured with like 50 knots... Normally the seat compartment has 4 bolts and comes off in about 30 seconds... I guess I discovered one down-side to saddle bags.... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 13:49:47 GMT -5
I'm heading out the door at the moment but I'll get some shots later.
l8r ya'll!
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 13:03:24 GMT -5
Have you used a torque wrench to tighten your bolts? This is weird... I just linked to a thread you had started on scootdogs forumThere's a handful of members here (myself included) that suffers from the scooter losing power at WOT with the same retro style scooter as in your pic.... Will you join our thread here and fill us in on your results with the Mikuni fuel pump? |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 10:50:46 GMT -5
At any case, works or doesn't work, the combined cost of the 2 are cheap enough that it's well worth a try, and a of a lot easier than adding a second tank. Yeah, an electronic fuel was my first thought as well and would still like to go that route, I just have no idea how to proceed. After reading TVnacmans post, the upper fuel tank is starting to sound discouraging. I didn't know that some scooters come with a vacuum fuel pump and an upper tank. I thought it was either or, pump w/tank on bottom or tank up top w/manual petcock... I came across this thread on scootdawgs forum with the exact same problem as we're having. It was suggested to buy a Mikuni fuel pump.... The poster said he bought 2 of them and then never followed through with the thread to let readers know if it fixed the problem or not... At $25.00, I may just buy one to try it before attempt a second tank... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 10:38:50 GMT -5
The manual for my scooter list the engine specs as follows:
6.3kw/7500r/min
That means I produce 6.3kw (8.44 H.P.) at 7500 rpm's
So my target is 7500rpm's at WOT.
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 10:25:22 GMT -5
As for the fuel pump, seriously unless you have a massive pump it shouldn't really be too much of a drain. I'm planing on just wiring directly to the battery. Any of the ebay iinline pumps should work. I mean if it's a fuel delivery issue, then pumping the bajeesus out of some gas to your carb should solve it The regulator should provide for enough fuel at any given RPM depending on the engines demand. If for some odd reason the fuel pump puts too much of a strain on your stator, there are always bigger and better statore to install. I'm already looking at the 11 pole just cause. Perhaps you can explain to me how the regulator works? When I said I don't know how to install a fuel pump on a GY6 is because I don't know what would control the fuel flow with an electronic pump.... I.E. If the pump is 30PSI does the regulator control the flow and only take what it needs? Wouldn't the pump be trying to constantly push in all that fuel even at idle? Would the regulator hold it back? |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 12, 2014 10:13:11 GMT -5
Everything your saying (Xys) I saw with the vac gauge . John Why I got a vac gauge was because Advance Auto is having an awesome sale on all their sunpro gauges. I actually went there to buy the 3, mini gauge set for $19.99 . It comes w/oil temp/oil pressure and a volt meter. Also, you don't need any senders as the set comes with them already. When I was in there, I happened to notice they had a vac gauge $12.99 .... That's a very hard price to beat and all I need to do to install it is poke a hole in my intake. They are illuminated and each one has a 12vdc 5watt light. That is 20 watts I didn't want to spare so I just swapped the bulbs with 10mm LEDs (only 200ma each) and I put in green LEDs to match my paint scheme. So, my entire instrument cluster lights up green for under 1 watt! I bought the black project box off ebay to the door for 7bux! Here, I'll share some pics of my progress....     |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 11, 2014 13:09:59 GMT -5
As for the fuel problem, I agree this is a common problem with these scoots, and you may very well be on to something. I do like what you are thinking as this would give you a larger fuel capacity...It kind of sucks having to stop for gas every 60 or so miles. As for me, I'm going to add a 6-8 PSI electronic pump and with that being way more PSI than these little engines need a simple regulator should tame it down enough. Only time and testing will tell. Please do make a thread about your endeavor so myself and others with this problem can keep an eye on your findings.Just an FYI, doing some basic performance mods and installing the 115mm variator, I can run at 45 MPH all day and only cut out if I try to run 55+ for more than a short burst. Before doing the engine mods I couldn't run at 45 mph for more than a few minutes. I will. I'll start a thread and catalog the whole procedure. And, if it fixes the problem I'll ask the staff around here to pin it. There are a lot of these retro clones... BTW, do you what Scooter these modeled after? I.E. My Havoc is a Yamaha Zuma clone. Are these retro styles, cloned around the Vespa? I had thought about adding an electronic pump but I don't how much extra juice the stator produces, nor do I know how to pull it off. Most pumps I found were in tank models that would require serious mods. In fact, in my search is how I came across the electronic fuel transfer pump. I had the thought of just swapping it over to an EFI but ecotrons says the EFI can not be installed on a scooter with the gas tank on the bottom. Anyhow, if you do use a pump, please start a thread about as I would like to see how you pull it off without using some sort of injection system. As far as performance goes, her scoot has no mods and does 55MPH exact. I think it may governed because it goes the same speed with me or her, and she outweighs me by quite a bit. Perhaps the CDI map limits the revolutions or something...... The amount of time she can go at WOT before it cuts out is variable. My Havoc however goes 62MPH when it's colder than 60* on level surface. It has no mods what so ever. But here's a head scratcher, I have 2 identical havocs, but my back-up Havoc will max out at about 53~57MPH... 2 identical scoots but one goes 5MPH faster (reliably)..... |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 11, 2014 10:17:07 GMT -5
Wow I'm thinking you must have gotten one of the ones that eked by what QC they had back then. Y My wifes BMS Heritage is a 2011 and I don't think it went through any kind of QC... I am constantly finding bolts and nuts that need to be re-tightened.... I have even had parts fall off... But, the one positive is that it has the B-case motor factory installed. I paid $900 for it and it only had around 100 miles on it. ------------------------------ The same thing still happens to my wifes. I tried Alleys suggestion of adjusting air/fuel mix and it didn't fix the problem (it actually made it worse)..... At this point, I'm starting to think it's just a design flaw in these types of scooters. I have seen other members with the same problem. The problem is, with the fuel tank on the bottom, at WOT there isn't enough Vacuum. IMO, the way to fix it is relocate the fuel tank to above the fuel pump. I'm going to buy a (secondary) tank off Ebay and put it in the under seat compartment. I'm going to use her original as a reserve and an electronic fuel transfer pump to get it up to her top tank. I'm hoping that if the tank is up higher, the pump will not have to work as hard and hopefully will not lose fuel pressure at WOT. Thoughts? |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 9, 2014 23:54:32 GMT -5
dmartin95 Doing all of this is more than just making my scooter more than what the factory designed. It's a bit of a hobby for me. An EFI unit is also not out of the question.  Yeah, it's quickly turning into a hobby for me as well. I've got so many gauges for my scooter now my wife joked the other day that it's going to look like an air-plane cockpit. I'm replacing the entire instrument cluster with a digital one like this one  I'm also adding an vacuum gauge, temp and oil pressure gauge and last but not least, volt and ammeter gauges.... The ecotrons EFI kit is something I'm looking into as well. I really like the idea of being able to fine tune my scoot from my smartphone! The only engine upgrades I'm planning is the Taida Oil Cooler The other GY6 Oil coolers that hook into the drain plug are gimicky IMO. The Taida one actually ports the the block at the oil pump and actually circulates the oil. Only reason I'm considering the oil cooler though is because I go for long rides (over 200 miles at a time) and a large portion of that is at WOT. An oil cooler can actually screw up a motor. Operating an engine under 180* will cause moisture build up in the oil. Cooler isn't always better but in my specific situation, I need to drop the oil temp some. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Oct 9, 2014 23:35:04 GMT -5
its your basic 3 wire small cylinder relay. black green grey. Hi F-tuff, no, you can not use the one in your auto zone link. You would need two of them, one for your flashers and the other for your turn signal. Here is a link describing the way the flasher you referenced works. (Scroll to the bottom for pics) While you may not want to wait, it would probably be much simpler (and cheaper) just to get the proper relay. A couple of weeks ago I bought the entire of inventory of a scooter store that was going belly-up and I have about 20 of these flasher relays. I have both kinds, the one with 3 wires and the ones that are 3 pin receptacle (No wired plug)... If you're interested I will sell you either kind for $5.00 + $2.  S&H. If your interested, just send me a PM.  |
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S&H.