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Post by pistonguy on May 4, 2017 19:57:33 GMT -5
 Ya Im not ashamed nor embarrassed to admit I did what I did to get her home. I don't care if it was duct tape and bubble gum. Was so funny watching the Clutch Bell pass me up as a Dodge Ram pick-up was coming the other way and I was waving this guy off as to not run over my Clutch Bell. I used correct torque with some loctite and have no issues. Yes I do now keep a spare Vari and clutch nut in my tool kit along with a belt etc. |
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Post by rockynv on May 5, 2017 3:59:59 GMT -5
why no grease? i literally slathered the inside of the variator with grease. If you have certain Honda and maybe some OEM Yamaha variators of the old design then yes there were some that absolutely required packing with grease. They were designed expressly for that while many of the newer designs would simply sling it out. Go by the book on what you have in your bike. |
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Post by rockynv on May 5, 2017 4:15:24 GMT -5
The wear yo see is with just a few hours run time. I can hardly imagine what this would look like in a challenging climate like in the Tropics were these Scoots ar ridden everyday thru wet sandy salt water mixed roads. A modern O ring chain will win every time. And again I'm sure this has to do with me using a impact on my Vari nut. just plain silly to imply such a thing Mine variator does not look like that even after 12,500 miles on a set of rollers and currently has 30,000 miles overall on it and is on the second replacement set of rollers/sliders. And yes you could have flipped some of the sliders over while rattling them about with an impact wrench however most times people are going to mess up the splines on the ramp plate or damage the drive face introducing som wobble using an impact wrench to install. You still have too much trouble for all the effort and expertise you claim. Showing a close tolerance brand new race piston has no bearing either on shoving a rope down a bore with some miles on it and enough wear to start developing a ridge. Forum advice on best practice has to be tempered by the fact that most folks here will be working on bikes with some miles and wear on them and possibly be in the hands of the second or third owners. We all don't have MegaBucs and money to burn on the best race tech on the market. If you don't/won't do it yourself then don't encourage others to do it either. I encourage all to go by the book and take the safe route when it comes to maintenance. It cost less in the long run and greatly lowers the failure rate. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on May 5, 2017 9:39:39 GMT -5
about the rope thing, it's simply not the right thing to do.
the rope wraps around one of the open valves, holding it open.
the piston moves up.
one of the following will happen:
1. due to close tolorances the valve punctures the piston.
2. the valves doesn't puncture the piston but warps the valve stem instead.
3. god comes along, issues a miracle, and you are able to complete the task with no ill effects.
also, do not try the screwdriver in the variator fins trick either.
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Post by pistonguy on May 5, 2017 10:13:18 GMT -5
The wear yo see is with just a few hours run time. I can hardly imagine what this would look like in a challenging climate like in the Tropics were these Scoots ar ridden everyday thru wet sandy salt water mixed roads. A modern O ring chain will win every time. And again I'm sure this has to do with me using a impact on my Vari nut. just plain silly to imply such a thing Mine variator does not look like that even after 12,500 miles on a set of rollers and currently has 30,000 miles overall on it and is on the second replacement set of rollers/sliders. And yes you could have flipped some of the sliders over while rattling them about with an impact wrench however most times people are going to mess up the splines on the ramp plate or damage the drive face introducing som wobble using an impact wrench to install. You still have too much trouble for all the effort and expertise you claim. Showing a close tolerance brand new race piston has no bearing either on shoving a rope down a bore with some miles on it and enough wear to start developing a ridge. Forum advice on best practice has to be tempered by the fact that most folks here will be working on bikes with some miles and wear on them and possibly be in the hands of the second or third owners. We all don't have MegaBucs and money to burn on the best race tech on the market. If you don't/won't do it yourself then don't encourage others to do it either. I encourage all to go by the book and take the safe route when it comes to maintenance. It cost less in the long run and greatly lowers the failure rate. This has become comical. lol! First remind us what Scooter you own, make model year displacement. How about posting up some pictures of the damaged pistons from rope and Your Vari and Scooter? My Vari assembly was held firmly in place with one hand as the other hand bumps the impact wrench, the notion that the impact rattled the slider to roll over is ridicules and just plane silly. If someone is jacking up there threads and busting off the end of the crank with there impact they shouldn't own one to begin with, Im no rookie with a impact, lol The 150cc Vari's are inexpensive to buy and I'm getting just what I paid for, The NCY Coated Vari pictured has a very low end coating I never expected it to last any amount of time, The Coating coming off and turning into powder has impeded the Rollers from Rolling and caused the Flat Spots, its just junk product thats all, and its so convenient for all these manufactures and retailers to sell the product as "High Performance" and provide no warranties or returns. One could manufacture a very nice Forged Vari, Shot Peened then a high end polish or Micro-Finish but the mostly entry level consumer who is now used to all the cheap prices for junk product will never pony up the money for it. I try to be humble and not get on a Scoot board with mostly entry level people to belittle them with who I am and what I do and have done braggadocios crap. A bore has been long wore and piston has long been worn out long before a ridge forms. I wonder if you actually have the proper measurement equipment and know how to read it. There must be some sadist in my because its got to the point with you I post a stupid question to just get a laugh from your response. itistheride.boards.net/thread/9919/velocity-stack-improve-filter-performanceThe notion that there was the level of engineering you suggest in the design and production of a Scooter Air Box is ridiculous, news flash, Its Not a Working Resonant Air Box, The Scooter Air Box is in no way Restrictive, It Far Outflows what the Engine Demands, however it Is a Velocity Killer and that is were the Gains are made by ditching the Box and installing a Uni-Filter or Short Stack with a Filter on the end of that. |
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Post by pistonguy on May 5, 2017 10:30:23 GMT -5
about the rope thing, it's simply not the right thing to do. the rope wraps around one of the open valves, holding it open. the piston moves up. one of the following will happen: 1. due to close tolorances the valve punctures the piston. 2. the valves doesn't puncture the piston but warps the valve stem instead. 3. god comes along, issues a miracle, and you are able to complete the task with no ill effects. also, do not try the screwdriver in the variator fins trick either. Exactly, and I should add I would suggest that while the Piston may be coming up to TDC if one of these fools is not paying attention the Engine is Not on the Compression Stroke but the Overlap Stroke were both valves are slightly open and the Rope would be pressing against the Open Valve and they may bend a Valve Stem. on larger engines like Industrial Diesels they have very large diameter Valve stems and would be less likely to bend but I still would never be shoving rope down a bore for any reason. I suppose one could use a oil filter wrench or even your leather belt to hold the Vari, I just bump mine with a impact, that maybe Not the thing to do if one has Never had any experience with a impact. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on May 5, 2017 10:47:41 GMT -5
I suppose one could use a oil filter wrench or even your leather belt to hold the Vari, I just bump mine with a impact, that maybe Not the thing to do if one has Never had any experience with a impact. i tried an oil filter wrench, didn't work. the variator on my ride had little vans around the outside circumference, not the cooling vanes on the outside face. the design of my CVT case allowed me to fashion a wedge of hard rubber to hold the variator. another thing i noticed was that 2 variator halves, vane to vane, interlocked perfectly. an old variator vane half can serve as a holding tool if the center hole is bored out to accept the socket, and a handle attached. another thing, i didn't torque the nut. i got it as tight as i could with just my hands, then gave the wrench handle 5 or 6 whacks with a hammer. no thread lockers either, but i GOTTA remember that zip tie trick. that one deserves a bone. |
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Post by pistonguy on May 5, 2017 15:26:35 GMT -5
i tried an oil filter wrench, didn't work. the variator on my ride had little vans around the outside circumference, not the cooling vanes on the outside face. the design of my CVT case allowed me to fashion a wedge of hard rubber to hold the variator. another thing i noticed was that 2 variator halves, vane to vane, interlocked perfectly. an old variator vane half can serve as a holding tool if the center hole is bored out to accept the socket, and a handle attached. another thing, i didn't torque the nut. i got it as tight as i could with just my hands, then gave the wrench handle 5 or 6 whacks with a hammer. no thread lockers either, but i GOTTA remember that zip tie trick. that one deserves a bone. Ya the Human Impact Wrench of a few whacks will work I also like your idea of melting some of the plastic from the Zip-Ty onto the Threads, I carry a lighter and a bunch of spares. I coulda found a plastic bottle on the road for sure and melted it on the threads to get me home. I knew exactly what I was buying in my Sunny 150 Hunter/Phantom style scooter, cost $749 + $120 freight brand new in 2013, its a Light duty ride and I have very much enjoy doing upgrades and tuning, Im that type of guy, Its as much fun as riding one to me, a hobby if you will. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on May 6, 2017 6:25:29 GMT -5
about the rope thing, it's simply not the right thing to do. the rope wraps around one of the open valves, holding it open. the piston moves up. one of the following will happen: 1. due to close tolorances the valve punctures the piston. 2. the valves doesn't puncture the piston but warps the valve stem instead. 3. god comes along, issues a miracle, and you are able to complete the task with no ill effects. also, do not try the screwdriver in the variator fins trick either. If either valve is open, you already screwed up. The rope trick works fine...when done correctly! |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on May 6, 2017 8:03:37 GMT -5
If either valve is open, you already screwed up. The rope trick works fine...when done correctly! i tend to agree with rocky on this one. you will be introducing a lot of foreign debris into your combustion chamber. a bent valve is a definite possibility. this reminds me of those videos you see on how you can adjust the valves on a 244cc while it's running. DO NOT try this, it WILL screw up your adjusters, i know, been there done that. the shop manual for the 244 calls for adjusting the valves cold on a engine that isn't running. |
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Post by w650 on May 6, 2017 8:51:03 GMT -5
The shop manual is wrong. Honda sent a notice out to the dealers on that one. The cold valve set procedure is only for an engine that has just been reassembled for initial clearance set. The manual was actually written before the scooter was sold to the public. The service bulletin recommended setting clearances with the engine running as a regular procedure.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on May 6, 2017 11:48:57 GMT -5
be advised that i have tried the running method.
my exhaust adjuster now flops from one end of travel to the other with NO resistance.
it's your engine, you can do whatever you want with it.
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Post by Jarlaxle on May 8, 2017 6:00:02 GMT -5
Sounds like operator error to me.
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Post by Jarlaxle on May 8, 2017 6:00:41 GMT -5
If either valve is open, you already screwed up. The rope trick works fine...when done correctly! i tend to agree with rocky on this one. you will be introducing a lot of foreign debris into your combustion chamber. a bent valve is a definite possibility. this reminds me of those videos you see on how you can adjust the valves on a 244cc while it's running. DO NOT try this, it WILL screw up your adjusters, i know, been there done that. the shop manual for the 244 calls for adjusting the valves cold on a engine that isn't running. One more time: if done CORRECTLY, it works fine. |
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Post by w650 on May 8, 2017 14:55:18 GMT -5
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