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Post by lain on Sept 25, 2015 15:04:27 GMT -5
So what's the top speed now?
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Post by horace on Sept 25, 2015 16:12:20 GMT -5
Or, how about that ride video? Told ya it wasn't done yet  Seriously just kidding around...... |
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Post by geh3333 on Sept 25, 2015 16:36:07 GMT -5
I hear ya ital, but I think the extra 20cc's will surpass the power needed to turn 16:38-16:37 gears and still may be plenty for the 17:36 gears. I know of a few 161cc setups that are running 16:38 gears and with 13" wheels . its all a matter of trial and error at this point. I don't know many if any with a 190cc scoot to even turn too in this matter .
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 25, 2015 16:38:55 GMT -5
So what's the top speed now? Well, last night just before i work up I was doing just over 135 .... |
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 25, 2015 16:46:15 GMT -5
rcq92130, the smaller the first number the better the take off should be, or you need less torque to spin the wheels. I would recommend for sure not to go anything higher then 16 and I would personally stay on 15 max from what I know now. To be honest I would have been perfectly happy with my 16\38 gears, but the fact that my buddy on stock gears with all other mods being the same is faster all around is making me recommend to you to stay on a ration close to 2.5 max for you. You will probably hit about 70\75MPH with that OK, someone help me out here. An expert of another message board said about the same thing --- that a smaller countershaft (small gear) gear will give better off-the-line acceleration. My mind can't get there, so please tell me where I'm going wrong. Two setups, identical except for gears. One has a small gear of 14/37, the other a larger 16/42. Both those give a ratio of 2.65 to 1 ..... but one has a smaller first gear. Lain and another said this will give better low end acceleration. but that doesn't make sense to me. neither the engine nor the wheel knows how we got to a ratio of 2.65 to 1. All it knows is that for every 2,65 turns of the countershaft the wheel will turn once. I do not see any reason the smaller gear - matched to give the same overall ratio - will be any different .... unless you are talking about rotational inertia, and that just can't be a meaningful difference between the 2 gear sets. Help me understand where I've gone wrong. Please. |
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Post by geh3333 on Sept 25, 2015 18:52:09 GMT -5
rcq92130, the smaller the first number the better the take off should be, or you need less torque to spin the wheels. I would recommend for sure not to go anything higher then 16 and I would personally stay on 15 max from what I know now. To be honest I would have been perfectly happy with my 16\38 gears, but the fact that my buddy on stock gears with all other mods being the same is faster all around is making me recommend to you to stay on a ration close to 2.5 max for you. You will probably hit about 70\75MPH with that OK, someone help me out here. An expert of another message board said about the same thing --- that a smaller countershaft (small gear) gear will give better off-the-line acceleration. My mind can't get there, so please tell me where I'm going wrong. Two setups, identical except for gears. One has a small gear of 14/37, the other a larger 16/42. Both those give a ratio of 2.65 to 1 ..... but one has a smaller first gear. Lain and another said this will give better low end acceleration. but that doesn't make sense to me. neither the engine nor the wheel knows how we got to a ratio of 2.65 to 1. All it knows is that for every 2,65 turns of the countershaft the wheel will turn once. I do not see any reason the smaller gear - matched to give the same overall ratio - will be any different .... unless you are talking about rotational inertia, and that just can't be a meaningful difference between the 2 gear sets. Help me understand where I've gone wrong. Please. I'm with u on this , unless I'm also missing something. |
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Post by geh3333 on Sept 25, 2015 19:12:06 GMT -5
When it comes down to it, its all about HP . Does rcq have a setup that can turn the 17:36 gears ? Like I said before I've seen other much smaller builds on here that can turn 16:37-16:38 gears just fine , and reach atleaste 65mph with decent takeoff. Now with the 190cc's , this has the ability to really up the HP and therefore why go with a gearing which works well on a much lesser setup. You want to be able to get full climb out of the variator but still be able to reach near 7000 + rpms if you want to. From what I understand this was happening with other members with much less and the 16:37 gears , so why run the same gears in a much more powerful setup ?
We really need to remember , most on here do a 60 or 61mm build and many have used the 16:37 gearing . also many have 13" wheels which would make it even harder for these setups to turn . our buddy here has 10" wheels which need more rotations to be able to get the scoot moving. In my opinion a 10" wheel with 17:36 gears will spin close to to the same as 13 with 16:37 gears. And now add in the extra HP the 190cc can put out. I may be wrong but if someone can figure out the math we can then know for sure.
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 26, 2015 0:52:49 GMT -5
OK, see if this makes sense (this might be helpful to others in making gear set decisions) 1. First, we need to see what going from a normal (13 inch) wheel down to a 10 inch wheel does. The question is about the circumference of the tire - how far on the road it travels with ONE rotation. The circumference is from the diameter (times pi), and the diameter is made up of the wheel (say, 13 inches) PLUS the height of tire on the top AND the tire on the bottom. Typical 13" wheel and tire Tire - 3.58" on top and on bottom of wheel Wheel - 13 Diameter - 20.16 inches Circumference (distance traveled in 1 rotation) - 63.33 inches Typical 10" wheel and tire Tire - 3.31" on top and on bottom of wheel Wheel - 10 Diameter - 16.62 inches Circumference (distance traveled in 1 rotation) - 52.21 inches Effective reduction ratio = 63.33/52.21 = 1.22. So, if you are used to thinking about gear sets and ratios on a bike with 13 inch wheels, you need to think that going down to 10 inch wheels will be like adding another reduction gear of 1.22 to 1. Whatever ratio (on 13" wheels) you are thinking about, multiply it by 1.22 to find the "effective" ratio of the same gear set on 10" wheels.2. For the gear sets you guys have been speaking about: Ratio Gear Set Effective 13" Ratio - 10" 2.41 17-41 2.94 2.40 15-36 2.  2.38 16-38 2.  2.31 16-37 2.82 2.25 16-36 2.75 2.12 17-36 2.58 Makes a BIG difference going to 10 inch wheels! 3. Here is a chart showing how much the change to 10 inch wheels alters the "ratio"  So, for example: Say you have 13 inch wheels and a 16/37 gear set (ratio 2.31 to 1). If you put 10 inch wheels on, and didn't change anything else, it would be like having a ratio of 2.82 to 1 ~~~~ which is even a taller ratio than having 14/39 gears in the bike with larger wheels! (see the earlier chart) |
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Post by cato on Sept 26, 2015 4:00:23 GMT -5
envious
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Post by jerseyboy on Sept 27, 2015 9:40:16 GMT -5
I would think he has to take it a little easy before he goes and does a top speed rip run on a new motor like that...let those rings break into the cylinder for at least 50 miles BTW-I got 16/37 on my 60mm stock block an its plenty of motor to pull it through the gears too top speed,,no sweat at all..its all in the tuning,,you can even set up a stock motor to work at 100% efficiency on 16/37 gear with a little bit of tuning,air/fuel, and flow And I am talking about big wheels 13" hahaha....if I was him I would put the 18's in it,,just beef up to the stronger clutch pack |
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Post by ital on Sept 27, 2015 10:43:37 GMT -5
I am not going to be able to convince anyone. What ever you decide to go with you will be happy with. I am lucky that my bud with 61mm bbk is on stock gearings and he is faster than me all around and our mods are the same. Anyway my 14/37 gears will be here this week and hopefully I can confirm if I gain speed all the way around or not by racing him.
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Post by ital on Sept 27, 2015 12:17:22 GMT -5
Also there must be another variable gear not exposed. I think your chart is correct if a 13inc scooter would go down to 10. A good test would be with your clutch off how many tire revolutions does your drive shaft take to do a full turn. My buds on stock gears takes 8.5 times on 12inch rims. Mine on 16/38 gears is 5 times on 10inch rims. That is a much bigger difference then 20% thus there must be another variable/gear
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Post by rcq92130 on Sept 28, 2015 12:16:15 GMT -5
It's here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A few pix below of the work of art made for me by Martin's Lightspeed Scooters. A note first about shipping. One of my initial concerns was about the cost difficulty of shipping an engine across the country (I'm in San Diego; Martin's is in Michigan). That turned out to be a non-issue. I sent my old engine to Michigan for use as a donor of all the little bolts and stuff, first taking off the clutch, flywheel, etc. to reduce shipping cost. Outbound shipping was only $32. Martin's new engine (I paid for shipping both ways) came to me, 2,000 miles away, via FedX .... at only $42. Packing was great, no risk to the engine at all. So --- shipping is a total non-issue.      |
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Post by ricardoguitars on Sept 28, 2015 12:23:54 GMT -5
Why are you posting here and not installing the thing to make a test run video for your scooter buddies?  |
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Post by ital on Sept 28, 2015 13:10:58 GMT -5
looks very nice and well packed. Looking forward for updates. When do you think you will have it installed? This week?
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