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Post by socal50 on Jul 19, 2015 18:09:17 GMT -5
I would look to see if the seat back comes out. The gives you a window to the engine or a floor board. John Unfortunately, nothing comes out. |
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Post by socal50 on Jul 19, 2015 18:11:20 GMT -5
Ok, update for today:
-New plug installed, nothing.
-Valves adjusted. Lower (exhaust) was tight, I dont know if it had any clearance, upper (intake) was a little loose, I adjusted them both and still nothing.
I tried spraying starter fluid into carb after doing both of these to make things a little easier... nothing.
How do you recommend doing a compression check on this motor? I have the harbor freight compression checker that will work.
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Post by crawford on Jul 19, 2015 22:49:57 GMT -5
3 things needed to fire up intake fuel, compression , fire, exhaust. Check you compression if none, check you valves, you said you spray fuel in no start what is left after that is fire cdi controls that. If you have a tester from harbor freight cheep clips on plug and spark plug wire on it crank engine see if you go any spark. what you need to fine what of group is missing it needs all to fire up.
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Post by socal50 on Jul 20, 2015 10:13:23 GMT -5
3 things needed to fire up intake fuel, compression , fire, exhaust. Check you compression if none, check you valves, you said you spray fuel in no start what is left after that is fire cdi controls that. If you have a tester from harbor freight cheep clips on plug and spark plug wire on it crank engine see if you go any spark. what you need to fine what of group is missing it needs all to fire up. You might read through the posts made previously... |
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Post by crawford on Jul 20, 2015 15:09:25 GMT -5
If the threads screw into head of course if they don't you can't right. If you get slight compression add a teaspoon of oil in spark plug hole see if it increases it not better check out those valves.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jul 20, 2015 15:45:50 GMT -5
If I understand, the engine turns over but there is no hint of a "fire" at all.
If that's true, it's pretty unlikely to be valves - unless the valves are so off they are completely closed. It's also most unlikely to be a timing problem. Either of those would cause it to not start, but there would at least be evidence of the engine trying.
1. Fuel in the clear line does NOT mean fuel in the carb bowl. Open the drain in the carb bowl to make sure there is gas there.
2. It's really simple to do an end-to-end check on the ignition system. Go to Harbnor Freight and get a $5 in-line spark tester (plug wire snaps on one side of the tester, other side has a wire that snaps onto the spark plug. If a spark the tester will light up). If you have an induction timing light that will also test the spark. Unfortunately, checking the plug NOT SCREWED IN is a decent test but does not assure you are getting a spark under compression.
I'll go out on a limb and guess you are not getting a spark. May be as simple as loose connectors on the coil (those crip-on spade connectors loosen up over time). May be your CDI is bad. May be a bad spark plug boot - to - spark plug wire connection.
But checking compression should always be step #1.
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Post by socal50 on Jul 20, 2015 20:57:59 GMT -5
If I understand, the engine turns over but there is no hint of a "fire" at all. If that's true, it's pretty unlikely to be valves - unless the valves are so off they are completely closed. It's also most unlikely to be a timing problem. Either of those would cause it to not start, but there would at least be evidence of the engine trying. 1. Fuel in the clear line does NOT mean fuel in the carb bowl. Open the drain in the carb bowl to make sure there is gas there. 2. It's really simple to do an end-to-end check on the ignition system. Go to Harbnor Freight and get a $5 in-line spark tester (plug wire snaps on one side of the tester, other side has a wire that snaps onto the spark plug. If a spark the tester will light up). If you have an induction timing light that will also test the spark. Unfortunately, checking the plug NOT SCREWED IN is a decent test but does not assure you are getting a spark under compression. I'll go out on a limb and guess you are not getting a spark. May be as simple as loose connectors on the coil (those crip-on spade connectors loosen up over time). May be your CDI is bad. May be a bad spark plug boot - to - spark plug wire connection. But checking compression should always be step #1. Thanks for the ideas. -Did a compression check today, 175 psi on harbor freight compression checker as expected. This was on E-start only, not using kick starter at all. -Bought Harbor Freight in-line spark tester. Appears to be good, light flashes mostly an Amber color, but appears to be working correctly. I had to modify the tool to accommodate our style plugs, ground down tip and used an extra spark plug boot on other side. I have a complete, great running scooter I can tear down to use the motor, but I would rather get this puppy going! I bought a new CDI/Coil anyways and am planning on swapping those on as soon as they arrive. Any more ideas? Im totally stumped. |
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Post by socal50 on Jul 20, 2015 21:51:39 GMT -5
Update- noticed some sparking when poking around at the regulator.... pulled it off and the thing was smoked. I have an extra, I put it on, but didn't help my situation. Not sure if this could be related to this thing not starting or not? See pic  |
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Post by JoeyBee on Jul 20, 2015 22:15:52 GMT -5
Looks fried, deffiantly needs to be replaced.
What voltage is your battery? Are you sure it is good?
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Post by rcq92130 on Jul 20, 2015 23:05:12 GMT -5
Holy crap. Regulator looks like it was under water!
1. Gas. OK, I assume you opened the carb bowl to make sure it was full of gas. That's a long shot anyway since you sprayed starter fluid in. That should have given you SOME response if it was only a fuel problem.
2. Your compression is not great but not low enough to be the cause of the total dead situation.
3. I still am holding out this will be an ignition problem (maybe the fried regulator supports an electrical culprit), but you have checked the likely things. Let us know when you install the new CDI and coil if that changes anything.
4. Definitely check to see if the battery is at 12.5 volts. Not likely causing the starting issue, but with that regulator you may be chasing more than 1 problem.
5. Time to pull the valve cover and check valve clearance. This is so simple to do you should not matter what --- and, anyway, after a few thousands of miles the valve clearance probably needs adjustment anyway. Here is a good video Shantyhag just posted and that has been a gold standard here:
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Post by socal50 on Jul 21, 2015 0:22:38 GMT -5
I just did the valve adjustment, exhaust was off.
I just noticed that there is a 2 pin connector that isn't connected to anything (T-shaped, with 2 wires coming out of it although it could house 3). Spark tests perfect on all tests, but I still think there is something electronic/timing/spark related. I am ordering a whole new harness, coil, stator, etc. My new hypothesis is that there is that someone else tried to 'fix' a problem with this scooter in the past and ended up making all kinds of mistakes in the meantime-like installing the wrong kind of regulator (4 wire instead of 5 or 6
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Post by socal50 on Jul 21, 2015 9:55:31 GMT -5
...Battery is good, I have it on a trickle charger now because I have been cranking it over so much over the last few days.
I am hoping there was some kind of fluke with the electrical system, maybe because of the incorrect regulator or something else making the timing way off... or something else...
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Post by nimajneb on Jul 21, 2015 12:47:35 GMT -5
I just did the valve adjustment, exhaust was off. I just noticed that there is a 2 pin connector that isn't connected to anything (T-shaped, with 2 wires coming out of it although it could house 3). Spark tests perfect on all tests, but I still think there is something electronic/timing/spark related. I am ordering a whole new harness, coil, stator, etc. My new hypothesis is that there is that someone else tried to 'fix' a problem with this scooter in the past and ended up making all kinds of mistakes in the meantime-like installing the wrong kind of regulator (4 wire instead of 5 or 6 Can you get a picture of the connector and where its at? |
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Post by rcq92130 on Jul 21, 2015 13:48:06 GMT -5
Are you sure the valve timing is correct? IOW, did you check it when you were doing the valve clearance check?
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Post by wilds on Jul 21, 2015 23:32:01 GMT -5
The cylinder should be soaked after all starting attempts, is the spark plug "wet"?
If not, it's not getting fuel, check intake valve!
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