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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 21:03:48 GMT -5
When it comes to the taller gears you may need to lighter weights , the springs are fine . You will usually lose some bottom end but gain a little on the top , you can tune it the way you like it . That's what's nice about having a few different sets of weights .
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Post by blacraven on Aug 28, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5
I just orders the 1500 rpm springs set And the 8 gram rollers. I'll be installing the bbk this evening, I need some advice, the bbk kit came with the #  main jet; how do properly adjust the air/fuel mix or do I not worry about that with the new carb? Is that stuff already adjusted on a new carb and do I just install the main jet? How's it going blacraven , go to hear you went with the rollers , I can tune a cvt just as good if not better then anyone on here . Alley is right about one thing that's you don't want to over jet . But if u ever want better performance you can go with a bigger carb , of course you will want to make sure you have bigger ports from the manifold to the exhaust . Some rookies don't realize that a bigger carb will pull more air allowing for more fuel to pass through the engine . Facts don't lie , plus I have a proven setup . Also it's always good to listen to more then just one person on hear , you'll find out that you can learn much more this way . Thanks for your input, I'm a very good listener and I also have good common sense, One thing I learned in life, is that most people (even the ones that are so-called "professionals" in their field) don't really know what the heck their talking about.. So I observe carefully and just by applying basic wisdom and common sense, I usually can tell when someone genuinely knows their stuff. From the years I've been observing, watching and listening. I know that Alleyoop knows his stuff, and I trust him and make financial decisions concerning my bike off his advice. Now of course I listen to others as well and have gotten great advise from others also. But anyways, The carb that came with the kit is a 19mm a # main jet. Is that a better carb? |
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 28, 2014 21:26:59 GMT -5
Put in the # main jet you do not want to be running lean with a new setup, you may even need a bigger main jet but a is safe for now. You have to find out if the is not enough or even to much all motors and setups run different. I would not order the taller gears yet first set it up with what you have then you can decide on the taller gears. to many changes at one time will make it that much harder to tune it to your liking. To pull taller gears your motor has to be a good puller in other words have good low end torque, don't forget it is trying to move the weight now like being in a higher gear ratio . Don't know if you ever driven a car with a manual and try starting off in 2nd gear rather than 1st gear. As far as CVTs are concerned I have tried every trick in the book, I don't think anybody on any of the 3 forums have done no where near as much experimenting with the cvt especially the cost as well. I have tried different variators even bought the expensive DR2 which has two different ramps built in, one for heavier weights and one for lighter weights(not good for scooters maybe good for go-karts sold it to a guy on here or on doc cannot remember for half the price). Tested Roller weights and Dr. Pulley Sliders from 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5, 12, 12.5 and 13s and that is testing each on the different variators, tried stronger contra springs as well as stronger clutch pad springs, even had a boss cut down also a larger belt. So you can imagine the number of times I was changing the CVT. My motor is a short case motor which has 8 bolts holding the CVT cover, I only put on 4 the 4 center ones to make the changes fast. my .02 for what its worth. But I will still say MILLSC is your man for setting up any 50cc, bbks and what not, he is like me with 150s.  Both are really the same but Millsc can get the best out of a 50cc motor. Just telling it like it is, I remember Millsc on the OLD SD asking for my help and he learned fast and good and is now in my books a of a mechanic. Alleyoop |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 21:30:58 GMT -5
How's it going blacraven , go to hear you went with the rollers , I can tune a cvt just as good if not better then anyone on here . Alley is right about one thing that's you don't want to over jet . But if u ever want better performance you can go with a bigger carb , of course you will want to make sure you have bigger ports from the manifold to the exhaust . Some rookies don't realize that a bigger carb will pull more air allowing for more fuel to pass through the engine . Facts don't lie , plus I have a proven setup . Also it's always good to listen to more then just one person on hear , you'll find out that you can learn much more this way . Thanks for your input, I'm a very good listener and I also have good common sense, One thing I learned in life, is that most people (even the ones that are so-called "professionals" in their field) don't really know what the heck their talking about.. So I observe carefully and just by applying basic wisdom and common sense, I usually can tell when someone genuinely knows their stuff. From the years I've been observing, watching and listening. I know that Alleyoop knows his stuff, and I trust him and make financial decisions concerning my bike off his advice. Now of course I listen to others as well and have gotten great advise from others also. But anyways, The carb that came with the kit is a 19mm a # main jet. Is that a better carb? Well I've seen some 50cc scoots hat came with an 18mm carb and some that came with 19mm carb . I prefer he 19 over the 18 any day . Let's say you have a 19mm and an 18mm carb both with a main jet . The 18mm will run a little richer do to it pulling slightly less air through it . The 19mm will not only allow for more airflow to the engine but it will also pull more fuel through the jet at top end then the 18mm carb . I'm rockin a 32mm pumper carb with. 125 main jet and I have it tuned in perfect . Perfect color on the plug tells me I'm no to rich and I'm not lean . If after all is said and done and if you think your lacking in performance just message me and I'll try to help you get a little more out of your scoot  in the meantime I'll let alley finish helpin you out . |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 21:40:02 GMT -5
Put in the # main jet you do not want to be running lean with a new setup, you may even need a bigger main jet but a is safe for now. You have to find out if the is not enough or even to much all motors and setups run different. I would not order the taller gears yet first set it up with what you have then you can decide on the taller gears. to many changes at one time will make it that much harder to tune it to your liking. To pull taller gears your motor has to be a good puller in other words have good low end torque, don't forget it is trying to move the weight now like being in a higher gear ratio . Don't know if you ever driven a car with a manual and try starting off in 2nd gear rather than 1st gear. As far as CVTs are concerned I have tried every trick in the book, I don't think anybody on any of the 3 forums have done no where near as much experimenting with the cvt especially the cost as well. I have tried different variators even bought the expensive DR2 which has two different ramps built in, one for heavier weights and one for lighter weights(not good for scooters maybe good for go-karts sold it to a guy on here or on doc cannot remember for half the price). Tested Roller weights and Dr. Pulley Sliders from 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5, 12, 12.5 and 13s and that is testing each on the different variators, tried stronger contra springs as well as stronger clutch pad springs, even had a boss cut down also a larger belt. So you can imagine the number of times I was changing the CVT. My motor is a short case motor which has 8 bolts holding the CVT cover, I only put on 4 the 4 center ones to make the changes fast. my .02 for what its worth. But I will still say MILLSC is your man for setting up any 50cc, bbks and what not, he is like me with 150s. Both are really the same but Millsc can get the best out of a 50cc motor. Just telling it like it is, I remember Millsc on the OLD SD asking for my help and he learned fast and good and is now in my books a of a mechanic. One of these days you may catch up to me on the cvt . Lol |
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 28, 2014 21:48:06 GMT -5
Your a rookie compared to me BRO, just keep running that over carbed perfectly tune machine down the hill because that is the only way that thing will do over 60mph. If any real mechanics are on here and hear your motor getting to that hill will also tell you it is a SLUG |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 22:00:13 GMT -5
You have a very short memory , first started on a hill second the belt was starting nearly a half inch up the variator , and it still had the takeoff power to out do cars at stop lights . That's because I'm damn good at tuning a cvt . One of these days you'll learn how to really carb an engine " well maybe you won't " . Don't be so hateful , your not gonna be the best at everything lol . An obviously you must have a slug of a scoot if mine runs better then yours . It's ashame my top speed is the same as yours . this " rookie " will have to show you how to get the most out of that slug you own . Lol |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 28, 2014 22:14:50 GMT -5
Get back to helpin this guy out and get over yourself . I guess this is what happens when you try to help some one out .
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 28, 2014 23:08:27 GMT -5
When he gets his parts in if he wants I will surely try and help him. But right now it is not known how the motor and the setup will run. Once a base is gotten one can then try and improve on it. Just have to mention a few things for you to grasp, first my 157qmj motor is on a 250 frame same size as a 650 honda same length, second it has 10" rims and the trike alone weighs in at 353lbs that is dry weight. It holds 4.7 gallons of fuel and just the fender adjusters weight in at 20lbs they are made of steel. So before I even get on it, it is coming in near 400lbs with the things I carry, I cruise at 50-55 at half throttle 5200-5500 rpms, 60mph its turning 6100-6200 rpms and still not at wot (NOW THAT IS SWEET)  , no telling how fast it will go maybe 100mph  . I just went back to listen to your run and it is very obvious it loads up, have a motor head listen to it and he will tell you the same thing. I tried to help you but you still believe the 32mm pumper is just fine(rookie mistake..bigger is better)  . You do realize not even a 250cc comes with at 32mm right, they come with a 30mm and yours with the BBK is only 155cc from a 149.6cc . Also before you put on the 30mm intake did you bore out the head intake to match 30mm? If not you have a lip all around the head intake, take a nickel and a dime the dime is your head intake and the nickel is your 30mm intake not good. Alleyoop |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 29, 2014 7:39:26 GMT -5
That's actually kinda strange because , stock trike still can run at 55mph . I hit 60 at 7000 rpms which is pretty good for a 58.5 bbk . One thing your missing is that the displacement isn't the only thing that ups the performance . I've never had it tested but I guarentee my horsepower is higher then most with a 58.5 , it's probably as high as most that have a 60 or 61mm bbk . When it comes to the manifold I'm sure you know my carb ist bolted right against it . It has a rubber boot connecting the two . Which is the same thing you would do if the manifold was a 32mm. It's slightly smaller but it's obviously better then a stock carb .
Remember your forgetting my variator was starting nearly 1/2 inch up the variator " you do know that makes a big difference right ? ". Also in the first vid at the light I didn't gun it , if you recall I didn't give it full throttle until I hit the crest of the hill . You have the right to believe what you want , remember I'm actually using the carb and have have very good results . Most agree online that a bigger carb that's tuned right will perform better at top end . Unless you've measured the amount of air and fuel that can fit I to a 58.5 chamber than you have no clue what is to much , you also need to measure the amount of fuel a stock carb and jet it pulling compared to a 32mm with a 125 main . I also posted a pic of my plug " which looks really good "
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 29, 2014 13:49:08 GMT -5
Sorry but get any 150 stock trike and your lucky you will see 50mph and that is at 8k+rpms. Funny you should say that the folks that bought the warrior and its a 250 right away complained it will only do 50mph and it has 14inch wheels..lol. Lot of weight to move Bud, and it takes power to move weight and to get power you need more displacement but more power does not buy you top end it will get you to speed faster. I have a Stroker Crank to get good low end torque to help pull the weight, even though with a stroker you will loose some rpms but you have great low end power. Then for the top end you work on the CVT and tranny. Just so you know I have the weakest springs on the clutch pads and also the weakest contra spring, my trike starts to move at 2300 rpms and it will climb hills without loosing rpms just mph. Stronger springs do not do anything for top end all they do is require higher rpms to move the weight. So if your motor does not have the power to move the weight at lower rpms then you need to have the rpms higher pretty simple stuff really..lol. When you can setup your ride to go up a hill without loosing rpms you are there. To test that you hit the bottom of a hill at whatever speed you want and hold the throttle right there and see as your going up if your rpms start to drop the only thing with a good setup is the power stays and only loose mph due to the weight holding it back. But here again due to my impressive setup I have lots of throttle left to even keep the mph up going up a really steep hill if I want. On yours you need lots of rpms to get to speed, and your the first I have ever heard needing 9.5 grams weights and wot to boot, so that right there should tell you something is not right. While on my IMPRESSIVE SETUP I run with 12g Dr. pulley sliders and don't need high rpms to get to speed. Your at wide open throttle while mine can run those numbers with throttle left...LOL So who knows his stuff on what and how to setup a ride, lesson over for now.  Alleyoop |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 30, 2014 2:45:48 GMT -5
Last season You actually said your stock trike ran near 55mph . My scoot will run near 7500 rpms on a straight run an up hill it still runs at 7000 rpms . " even a Lamborghini will lose rpms if it's maxed out and hits a hill " An d It does exactly as u said , it only loses mph " depending on the hill" I can stay between 50 and 55 on most hills " not small inclines " and a very steep hill it will run 45 " and that's starting from a dead stop at the start of the hill" .
And I cruise at 60mph , your at the point where all you can do is either admit your wrong about not being able to run at 67mph with a 58.5 " and also realizing that horse power is seller ate from displacement "or stay in denial . And that's the reason your so bitter " because your to full of yourself " which is ashame for somone of your age . I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong . It's ashame you actually try to make someone mad by posting comments meaning to demean someone ., After all they did was try to give a there own opinion . " whit bout being ignorant or demeaning "You got mad because someone was taking some of my advice in another thread and told them that your done helpin them . Wow alley , " what character you have " very childish behavior . And to think I came to you at the begining of the season in good faith in hope of this not happening, but you can't help being ignorant can you . Well alley this is a free lesson for you and I hope you one day grow up and remember it dosent pay being ignorant unless ignorant is what you like to be . To everyone else I apologize for letting his ignorance get to me again and this is the last time I'll respond to his posts .
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Post by millsc on Aug 30, 2014 19:25:39 GMT -5
18 to 20mm carbs work great on the modded 50ccs no need for a bigger carb unless you have a ported big valve head exhaust and all the works. I did get great results with a few of my modded 50s with a 24mm carb and stock 150cc manifold, but those scoots had everything done possible. Best set up is the hoca gear sets big valve head preferably one hand made by Buford then you can up the carb size but if you don't have a real big valve head not an eBay special stick with 18 to 20mm carbs. The exhaust mod real just makes it louder no gain unless you have a performance cam, and big valve ported head then it craves more air flow. First mod I suggest is to upgrade the variator and slider weights. Most noticeable gains are from the varaitor and big bore kits all the other mods need other things working together to achieve gain.
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Post by blacraven on Aug 31, 2014 4:01:53 GMT -5
Hello everyone, Here's the latest. I installed the BBK complete bbk link, carb, etc...following the instructions of this video: Everything went well with the install but I have a few questions. To the point, I finally got it running and did a test ride today for about five minutes. I had a hard time starting at first, it would turn over then die about a half second later, not really fully turning on. After playing with it for a while I got it to fully turn over and stay on by coaching it with the throttle. It wouldn't stay on with out reving the gas(this also was the case before the bbk install when I was trying to get it running). I must say, even though my bike runs like crap right now, I immediately felt the power. It sounded like a beast just growling at me with each rev of the throttle, just waiting for me to get the thorn out of its paw so it can run like the wind. I took it up and down the block a few times to check things. *Side note I left out the 8g rollers because I was really tired. ill do them after I rest up and get a good meal in me. Most likely ill wait until the 8g sliders and 1500 spring set get here. *Also I forgot to put the black plastic boot/spacer back on that goes in between the carb and the manifold. It still is pretty rough and is loud as a small dirt bike.(I don't like this, I like a quiet scooter) The take off power was impressive but it struggled to go past about 15-20mph all while reving and felling really rough. I couldn't really do any top speed because things are still out of whack, it feels like something is wrong with the clutch/cvt. like im reving way to high for the low mph. I went about 15-20mph maybe? all while feeling like its reving too high and rough, not really smooth in the cvt if you can understand. When I get a chance i'm gonna take off the clutch bell and see whats going on. (I already changed the belt, 5g rollers and variator sliders a few weeks ago) My concerns were: The hole on the bbk wasn't milled out for this thing...  The new air filter has no room when the carb is on, can I take all the old air intake stuff off? the box and all the other devices? Does my bike need all these pieces?   My old piston looked pretty burned out and this other part was soot black.      The throttle clip on the carb doesn't look like its bent down enough, but I didn't mess with it. When I turn the throttle it comes down on it but only a little. Do I need to adjust this so it fully presses the pin down? ( This is what I did a while ago before the bbk install, does this cause too much gas to be injected?
Did I cause my bike to run too rich because of this and is that why my piston was black?)    
Valve adjustment?The guy in the video said to adjust both the valves to .005, which I did. What should I adjust both my valves to? Loud small dirtbike sound?I'm pretty sure I put the muffler back on properly so why is she screaming so loud? and what can I do to make things quiet again? Wont stay onAlso, my bike wont stay on without the throttle and the light dim when it starts to die. Battery? RR...? My battery has been not charging for quite some time and I thought the stator replacement would fix this. I hear about the RR(whats is it?) my tail light and head light doesn't come on anymore(for over a year) but the bulbs are good. Do I need a new battery? or if I fix the problem can my old one recharge? I know this is alot and I thank you guys for your help. My bike is my only form of transportation and I need it running properly. Thanks. |
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Post by millsc on Aug 31, 2014 17:02:26 GMT -5
Adjust the valves to .004 take all the emissions stuff off and take the airbox completely off put the filter directly on the carb.
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main jet; how do properly adjust the air/fuel mix or do I not worry about that with the new carb?
..BAD TO THE BONE..
