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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 23, 2014 16:47:02 GMT -5
This re: 150cc GY6 exhaust Drilled out my stock muffler, but several here said the biggest problem with a stock exhaust system is the pathetic, tiny diameter header pipe, not the muffler. So I ordered what is supposed to be a "performance header" -- arrived today. NOT HAPPY ... but i know these things need to be TUNED systems, not simply big pipes, so I'm asking exhaust experts if what I have is fine ... or if I should be disappointed. Here is the photo of the header i received. Looks like a nice fat pipe in this photo. Please note the end towards the head of the engine (which necks down to a smaller size) and the end towards the muffler (which is a straight, 5-1/2 inch segment): Now lets look at each end. The photo below is one of both the opening in the header I received, and the opening in an NCY header: Note the size of the opening in what i got (which looks to me the same size as the stock header i already have) and the larger opening in the ncy header. On my new header this small diameter pipe is about 3 inches long, then (I believe) it transitions into a fatter pipe. Now the muffler end: Note - to my shock - there is a small diameter pipe INSIDE the header (looks, again, to be the same size as my stock header). This inner pipe looks to be about 5-1/2 inches long. I suppose beyond that (closer to the engine) what exists is the fatter header pipe you see from the side view in the first photo. Is all of this "small pipe" stuff OK ... and this will be an OK "performance header", or have I just been ripped off? I especially don't get why anyone would go out of their way to put a smaller pipe inside the larger bore header pipe on the end toward the muffler. Doesn't make sense to me at all, unless it's to "tune" the thing ....
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Post by scooter on Aug 23, 2014 17:59:44 GMT -5
I have been wondering why they are made that way myself. It should be cheaper to run a large pipe all the way, rather than to put a smaller pipe on the ends. Makes me think there may be a good reason why it's made that way. the air coming out of the head would slow down and expand upon entering the larger pipe. Hitting another small pipe at the other end would increase velocity and pressure. The larger pipe may create a vacuum of sorts, helping to pull air out of the head, and the whole system might break up the impulses of air, bringing the outlet pressure down to an average of the two pressures, between pulse and no pulse. I am looking forward to reading the replies you get about all of this mysterious plumbing. (Edit 8-26-14 Here's an article about 4 stroke exhaust telling us why they believe the headers have steps in them: "Another popular trick for high RPM applications is the use of a stepped header. This is where the header steps to a larger diameter a few inches from the exhaust port. Some pipes use multiple steps along the length of the header. Typically, there is a step where the exhaust port ends and the exhaust pipe begins. This is left as a step, rather than making the pipe diameter match the port diameter to help prevent reversion, that is prevent exhaust gases from flowing backwards into the combustion chamber after the piston reaches TDC. If the pipe is designed to be used at high RPM's, then the exhaust gases may not have enough velocity at low RPM's to prevent reversion, so this step helps prevent it, thus helping power at low RPM's. There have also bee anti-reversion cones used in the past, it is like a funnel placed inside the entrance to the header to further help prevent reversion. Steps placed further down the pipe create pressure drops in the flow of the gases, and can sometimes help increase power at higher RPM's depending on where they are placed along the pipe. " See the original article at www.thumpertalk.com/topic/798327-4-stroke-exhaust/ )
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 24, 2014 8:58:41 GMT -5
Maybe no one here has ever looked into exhausts ..... ?
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Post by nakedguy on Aug 24, 2014 12:27:08 GMT -5
My thoughts , a engine is just a big air pump , more air in and more air out makes HP . I personally think that the pipe should be big from front to back , if you need back pressure it should come from the muffler , I remember seeing on expensive sport bike mufflers a bunch of thin plates that bolt on right at the outlet with washers between every plate as spacers , yhat way you could add or remove discs to tune the pipe for your bike , but that just my 2 cents
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Post by pmatulew on Aug 24, 2014 13:22:41 GMT -5
Supertrapp. --> link With a small engine that runs best in a narrow rpm range like our CVT engines, ideally what want is a tuned length header, (appropriately sized, breathing through a straw is no good), that opens in to an expansion chamber and then necks down and exits to a sound suppressor. One of these goofy looking things --> When you get the length and volume of system correct you hit a resonant frequency that matches the exhaust pulses coming out of the engine. Sort of like waves sloshing in a bath tub or a pool. Time the slosh just right and the push/pull will actually help draw more exhaust of out the cylinder. Longer length/more volume/lower rpm and vice versa with shorter/smaller/higher rpm. Wasn't it OldChopperGuy that had success with one of these system before he upsized?
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 24, 2014 13:54:38 GMT -5
Keep the NCY one with the bigger outlet by the Flange. Alleyoop
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 24, 2014 14:00:48 GMT -5
My thoughts , a engine is just a big air pump , more air in and more air out makes HP . I personally think that the pipe should be big from front to back , if you need back pressure it should come from the muffler , I remember seeing on expensive sport bike mufflers a bunch of thin plates that bolt on right at the outlet with washers between every plate as spacers , yhat way you could add or remove discs to tune the pipe for your bike , but that just my 2 cents Right on Bro, you do not want it restricted as the exhaust comes out of the motor. That is why performance exhaust MANIFOLDs on hotrods have there own manifold pipe for each cylinder and run down a certain length then they go to a wide tube and out the pipes to a muffler. I had mine made 1 1/4 all the way to the muffler, and I have a supertrapp adjustable on the end with discs. Alleyoop
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 24, 2014 14:13:40 GMT -5
THANKS, GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the knowledge and advice I was hoping to get. Appreciate it very much.
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 25, 2014 5:01:58 GMT -5
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Post by nakedguy on Aug 25, 2014 16:32:36 GMT -5
Pmaulew is that photo not of a 2 stroke muffler ? If it is that is a whole different ballgame as the engine fires on every stoke and they don't even have valves .they use a reed valve , like a little flat tin plate , and then the scavenging of this type of pipe would be needed
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Post by pmatulew on Aug 25, 2014 17:00:21 GMT -5
That example is intended to be a two-stroke exhaust system. And as those engines suck and blow at the same time they benefit a great deal from the scavenging of a resonant exhaust. But that doesn't mean that you can't use the same principles on a four stroke motor with great success. Here is the link to post from OldChopperGuy that I remembered --> link
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 25, 2014 18:52:47 GMT -5
Have another header ordered - this one the same diameter end to end.
Theory has it what I received is a 50cc header (the small pipes perhaps adequate for that small an engine), not the 150cc "Performance header" it was described to be. Maybe an innocent mistake by the retailer - have not yet heard back from them, so can't yet tell.
New header will not arrive for a week or so, so I'm going dark till then. Thanks again, everyone, for helping with this (and the other)issues!
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 25, 2014 21:31:02 GMT -5
This is the same header that's on my scoot , and the muffler is also the same except for mine is all chrome and the muffle has six bolt holes that match the header . They added a few small mods with the exhaust and are charging 399.00 " they added a we of Koso roller weights a couple jets and an air filter " I paid around 110.00 for the exhaust . m.ebay.com/itm/290153913862?nav=SEARCH.
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Post by wilds on Aug 25, 2014 23:51:08 GMT -5
On one header I had the smaller pipe inside ran all the way, It only looked like it would transfer into a bigger pipe after about 3 inches. But when I cut the header in several places to check I saw that it ran all the way to the muffler. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same with this one! You might as well use the original. No difference...
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 26, 2014 6:13:09 GMT -5
That's what's nice about my header it dosent have that small diameter pipe running through it .
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