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Post by bvance554 on Jul 19, 2014 1:46:54 GMT -5
I finally got my scooter titled and registered with the VA DMV today. Very simple process, unless you bought your scooter 3 years ago like I did, and never received a title and no longer have the bill of sale from an online company that may or may not exist. Even with the notarized form stating that I own the vehicle and do not have a title, and why I do not have a title, they still asked for a bill of sale. So my last option was to create one, and have a friend sign it. No sales or property tax implications so it didn't matter. PIA but I'm glad I'm back on the road.
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Post by rockynv on Jul 19, 2014 4:07:04 GMT -5
FYI - Creating a fake bill of sale in Virginia and then passing it off as genuine is considered Forging and then Uttering:
"Forging and Uttering are both Class 5 felony offenses in Virginia. A Class 5 felony is punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $2,500 fine. However, it is important to note that when a person forges a writing and attempts to use that writing, he or she has committed two offenses - forging and uttering. Therefore, each offense is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. Accordingly, the maximum time such a person would face is 20 years in jail."
Hope this does not come back on you as it goes through Title Processing..
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Post by metrodee on Jul 19, 2014 9:45:56 GMT -5
While that is true, a lot of people in this state owned mopeds that didn't come with any paperwork at all, no Bill of Sale, Title, or Registration. As such most people will write a bill of sale containing the seller's name/buyer's name/seller's address, contact info, and signature which satisfies DMV I sold my E-Ton Beamer doing the same thing (under the same circumstances) and they were able to get it titled/registered/plated just fine.
I will commend the DMV for it's leniency on that because it would've negatively impacted scooter riders otherwise, but personally despise the recent changes because they do not provide protections for those that legitimately buy a scooter second-hand, only to find out it was reported stolen. They also didn't provide extra on-road protections for scooter riders which are sorely needed here. Virginia had the highest number of motorcycle-related deaths last year, and they weren't because they were on their cell phones!
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Post by spunn on Jul 19, 2014 10:43:01 GMT -5
That's actually more normal then most people think.
Glad your riding
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Post by rockynv on Jul 20, 2014 4:34:47 GMT -5
As long as the DMV said its OK and knows that you made it up just to satisfy their paper trail that's one thing however being a common practice alone does not make it the right thing to do especially if the authority that you are passing it to has not pre-approved your particular use of this practice.
Does negate the value of a real bill of sale and gives thieves a way to more easily move stolen goods.
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Post by Paladin on Jul 20, 2014 12:45:50 GMT -5
"Forgery" is not a crime unless there is an intent to take money/things away from someone else.
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Post by bvance554 on Jul 20, 2014 23:06:17 GMT -5
Thank you. No one was harmed in this 'forgery.' If they wanted to investigate this sale, said friend who signed the bill of sale will say yes, he paid me $100 for the scooter. IF there were tax laws involved I would have felt differently, but that doesn't apply here. Just needed a title and a plate.
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Post by rockynv on Jul 21, 2014 4:08:06 GMT -5
Thank you. No one was harmed in this 'forgery.' If they wanted to investigate this sale, said friend who signed the bill of sale will say yes, he paid me $100 for the scooter. IF there were tax laws involved I would have felt differently, but that doesn't apply here. Just needed a title and a plate. So he would commit another fraud (actually it would now be perjury or making false statements during an investigation depending on who was doing the asking) or would you after the fact give him the $100 for a bike he did not actually own? That still subverts providing legal proof of ownership and is fraud against a legal authority. If they investigate any proof of ownership down the line on who the bill of sale claims sold the bike to you it still could turn into 20 years each and that hangs until the statute of limitation runs out. Remember that its up to 10 years for creating the fake bill of sale even if it is not passed and then up to another 10 years for using it. We can rationalize these things a dozen different ways however they are considered Grade 5 Felonies not Misdemeanors. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jul 21, 2014 17:07:18 GMT -5
Dude...your underwear is too tight.
Note: as long as the scoot isn't stolen, he did the same thing title companies do (entirely legally) every day.
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Post by rockynv on Jul 21, 2014 21:26:49 GMT -5
Dude...your underwear is too tight. Note: as long as the scoot isn't stolen, he did the same thing title companies do (entirely legally) every day. Not too sure on that one. |
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Post by bvance554 on Jul 21, 2014 23:36:34 GMT -5
I'm sure. Look, it is a known problem. If you look right now on the VA DMV website it says you need a bill of sale to title a scooter. Since July 1, and with the DMV recognizing the problem there is now another form that is required to title in lieu of a bill of sale. I was given this form when I first went to register the scooter. It was a form for Mopeds/ATV's. I state in the form that I I am the rightful owner of the vehicle and it does not have a title. I had to have this form notarized and I came back to the DMV. This form essentially takes the place of a bill of sale. I folded up the 'forged' bill of sale and put it in my pocket. I gave all the forms to the clerk and then he asked if I had a bill of sale. So I pulled it out. I didn't need it because of the notarized form I had, but it is a law that just took affect and the process has evolved. So if the Commonwealth of Virginia REALLY wants to investigate this particular case of titling a Chinese scooter that cost $850 new three years ago then go ahead.
Instead of telling me how I've committed a felony and am now facing 20 imprisonment, tell me how would you have done things better? How would you have legally titled a scooter in which you had no original bill of sale and no means of acquiring one?
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 21, 2014 23:39:52 GMT -5
They always ask for a bill of sale and that is to get the tax you owe for the amount you paid. All they really want is the money honey.
Alleyoop
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Post by bvance554 on Jul 21, 2014 23:48:12 GMT -5
They always ask for a bill of sale and that is to get the tax you owe for the amount you paid. All they really want is the money honey. Alleyoop Exactly. As I mentioned there are no sales or property taxes placed on scooter registration which is why I had no qualms doing what I had to do. |
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 21, 2014 23:51:24 GMT -5
Yep all they really are looking for is the amount you paid and then you pay the taxes. Now they will question if they know something is worth thousands of dollars and the bill of sale says $1.00 (HAHA).
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Post by bvance554 on Jul 22, 2014 0:01:44 GMT -5
The oddest part was when I had to list the 'make.' It is a Roketa, but the only thing saying it is a Roketa was the website that I bought it from. I have no documentation saying it is a Roketa. When I completed the paperwork I listed the actual manufacturer from the specifications plate as the make (I forget what it was.) The clerk said 'I can't find this make in our database.' I said is Roketa in there? Yes it is. Ok, thats it.
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..BAD TO THE BONE..