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Post by jerseyboy on Jul 7, 2014 21:08:51 GMT -5
Yeah,, I thought the air/fuel was just for the idle and maybe how the motor takes the fuel off idle,,the top is the main jet..I remember having an old Triumph with a clogged pilot and the motor ran like crap throughout the entire power band so you never know.. The air/fuel mixture is not for the idle. There is a seperate screw for that on the opposite side of the carb. The idle screw controls how far open the air intake stays when youre not using the throttle at all. More air = higher RPMS, so you can adjust the idle screw to change how many RPMS you idle at. The air/fuel mixture screw contains how much gasoline gets mixed with the air as it comes through the carb. I didnt mean it was for the idle SPEED,,I meant its for controlling fuel/air mix at around idle and slightly above,,sorry for being confusing...
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 7, 2014 22:05:58 GMT -5
HAHAHAHA, you guys really confuse the issue:
The IDLE SPEED screw is the screw with the spring underneath that you use to adjust your IDLE. All it does is the same thing that your throttle cable does it rotates the spring loaded throttle control wheel which opens or closes the butterfly inside the carb. Turning that screw Clockwise pushs the throttle control wheel down and inside it opens the buttterfly a little more allowing for more air as well as uncovering more of the Pilot Jets fuel outlets which raises your idle(JUST AS IF YOU HELD THE THROTTLE A LITTLE OPEN..SAMEO SAMEO). Turning that screw Counter Clockwise allows the throttle control wheel to rotate up which closes the butterfly covering some Pilot Jets fuel outlets as well as cutting some air which in turn lowers the idle.
The FUEL MIXTURE screw adjusts the amount of fuel allowed to be sucked out of the Pilot Jet to get the right mixture for the amount of air that is being drawn in. The fuel outlets for the pilot jet always suck out gas from the pilot jet all through the throttle range, as you open the throttle more less fuel is being sucked out of the pilot jet but fuel is always being sucked out. There is no cut off of fuel from those outlets they are all open at this time.
The Needle attached to the SLIDE feeds fuel as it is being drawn up out of the defuser and main jet.The needle controls most of the fuel in the mid-range up to about 3/4 throttle when by that time the Needle is almost out of the defuser. Now all this time the fuel is being drawn from the MAIN JET and some from the PILOT JET. Once you get past the 3/4 throttle the needle is out as far as it can come out and you get as much fuel out of the main jet and past the needle as possible.
Now you can control the amount of fuel in the mid-range by either lowering the needle or raising the needle or by getting a thicker needle or thinner needle. Thinner needle will allow more fuel to flow past the needle and a thicker needle tighter fit in the defuser less fuel will flow past the needle.
So as you can see The Main Jet May Effect the mid-range depending on the thickness of the needle. Alleyoop
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Post by geh3333 on Jul 7, 2014 22:22:28 GMT -5
I read a couple different write ups about some different style carbs , again I found many who disagree one way or the other about the cv carbs .lol " surprise surprise " . But I'll go with your version it sounds more plausible . Thanks alley . When it comes to the throttle " idle screw at the butterfly " i mean there is no way to actually change the ratio of air to fuel with it " of course it does allow more air and fuel through but it's gonna always be the same ratio without adjusting the actually air file screw . " hope you know what I'm sayin " lol . I'm pretty sure my needle is not adjustable .
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Post by blarboose on Jul 7, 2014 22:27:23 GMT -5
HAHAHAHA, you guys really confuse the issue: The IDLE SPEED screw is the screw with the spring underneath that you use to adjust your IDLE. All it does is the same thing that your throttle cable does it rotates the spring loaded throttle control wheel which opens or closes the butterfly inside the carb. Turning that screw Clockwise pushs the throttle control wheel down and inside it opens the buttterfly a little more allowing for more air as well as uncovering more of the Pilot Jets fuel outlets which raises your idle(JUST AS IF YOU HELD THE THROTTLE A LITTLE OPEN..SAMEO SAMEO). Turning that screw Counter Clockwise allows the throttle control wheel to rotate up which closes the butterfly covering some Pilot Jets fuel outlets as well as cutting some air which in turn lowers the idle. The FUEL MIXTURE screw adjusts the amount of fuel allowed to be sucked out of the Pilot Jet to get the right mixture for the amount of air that is being drawn in. The fuel outlets for the pilot jet always suck out gas from the pilot jet all through the throttle range, as you open the throttle more less fuel is being sucked out of the pilot jet but fuel is always being sucked out. There is no cut off of fuel from those outlets they are all open at this time. The Needle attached to the SLIDE feeds fuel as it is being drawn up out of the defuser and main jet.The needle controls most of the fuel in the mid-range up to about 3/4 throttle when by that time the Needle is almost out of the defuser. Now all this time the fuel is being drawn from the MAIN JET and some from the PILOT JET. Once you get past the 3/4 throttle the needle is out as far as it can come out and you get as much fuel out of the main jet and past the needle as possible. Now you can control the amount of fuel in the mid-range by either lowering the needle or raising the needle or by getting a thicker needle or thinner needle. Thinner needle will allow more fuel to flow past the needle and a thicker needle tighter fit in the defuser less fuel will flow past the needle. So as you can see The Main Jet May Effect the mid-range depending on the thickness of the needle. Alleyoop Thank you. Thats what I was trying to say, but you did a better job of explaining it. Anyway, to get back on track; What are your reccomendations vis-a-vis the fuel pump or air hose based on what I said earlier?
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Post by jerseyboy on Jul 8, 2014 7:39:28 GMT -5
Thanks Alley,, You answered my question about the air/fuel screw controlling range,,I thought it was just the idle and bottom that it controlled,,never knew it controlled the entire range
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Post by geh3333 on Jul 8, 2014 8:39:48 GMT -5
Same here jersey , I know a couple yrs ago on scoot dawg I was told that it just controlled the idle but I'm not sure who told me that ?
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Post by jerseyboy on Jul 8, 2014 14:11:21 GMT -5
I remember seeing a chart somewhere that showed what each part of the carb controlled at different RPM's,,they showed the mainjet,needle,and pilot on the graph...not sure how accurate it was though..
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 8, 2014 15:39:01 GMT -5
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Post by jerseyboy on Jul 8, 2014 16:00:21 GMT -5
Thats the one I was talking about,,wow look at that pilot air screw and jet all the way across the band..lol
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Post by blarboose on Jul 8, 2014 18:17:31 GMT -5
...sssooooo about the issue with the lag at WOT? Im thinking its the fuel pump. Do you guys think its the fuel pump?
I went for a decently long ride today. I was able to do 40MPH pretty easy the whole way, but I couldnt get much faster unless I was going down hill. I couldnt seem to get any higher than 4K RPMS without it starting to lag.
Theres another minor issue that came up today; For some reason, the bike doesnt seem to be properly charging the battery. It doesnt die right out, but if I hook a battery up on Monday, and its at, say 13.5v, if I ride every day then by Friday itll be down to like 12v, and if I ride it after that, it'll probably die during the ride. This isnt a HUGE problem since I have 2 spare batteries, and I always keep at least one extra on the bike whenever I ride, but its still something Id like to fix at some point.
Anyway, my main concern right now is the lag and slow top speed. So, fuel pump? Yes? No? Maybe?
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Post by jerseyboy on Jul 8, 2014 19:10:20 GMT -5
If you think its the fuel pump or to rule out the pump go to lowes or home depot and get a manual petcock,,by pass the pump and see how that works,,just make sure your lines run downhill to the carb,,you can even just use a long piece of fuel line and run NO petcock at all just for the test...
For the charging issue put a DVM on the battery and look at the volts,,then start the motor and rev up to 4-5K(on center stand)...the voltage should increase from 12 to 14 or so...if it doesn't the stator could be going bad,,wonder if that could be causing a weak ignition problem as well,maybe the stator falls on its face after 3k rpm or so causing the top end bog it does feed the CDI..Hmmmmm???
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 8, 2014 21:11:18 GMT -5
Ok, back to the Falling flat on its face at high rpms: Take the cap on top of the carb off and check the RUBBER DIAPHGRAM. Look for rips and or tiny holes it may also be leaking around the center piece where it is held on. If it leaks it will not hold the needle out and drop and rise causing your symptoms. You DON'T have to take the Carb off. Alleyoop
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Post by rockynv on Jul 8, 2014 21:58:34 GMT -5
Now if your not charging that can be part if the problem especially if you have a DC CDI. Do your lights turn on when you turn the key to the run position? If so then you have a DC CDI and with the charging system not able to keep up and charge the battery you may not be getting enough voltage to run at high speed. After you charge the battery overnight what are the voltage readings from the battery without the engine running or having been run 1 hour later?
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Post by blarboose on Jul 8, 2014 22:42:47 GMT -5
Ok, back to the Falling flat on its face at high rpms: Take the cap on top of the carb off and check the RUBBER DIAPHGRAM. Look for rips and or tiny holes it may also be leaking around the center piece where it is held on. If it leaks it will not hold the needle out and drop and rise causing your symptoms. You DON'T have to take the Carb off. Alleyoop Its not that. When I took the carb apart to clean it I did take a look at the diaphragm because I thought it was neat looking. There werent any rips or holes or anything. It IS possible that the diaphragm may be on crooked or the cap may not be sealed properly, due to me doing a lousy job putting it back together... Ill check on that in the morning. rockynv None of the lights go on when I turn the key, but the fuel gauge does... activate, for lack of a better term. As in, when the key is in the "off" position, the needle on the fuel gauge sits all the way at empty, and when I turn the key, the needle moves to whatever position is actually indicative of the current fuel level. My headlights are sort of ghetto-rigged. I couldnt get them to work and there was no visible reason why, so I simply by passed everything. I hooked up the positive and negative on the headlight fixtures directly to the positive and negative coming off the battery, with an on/off switch in between. So basically, the headlights operate independently of everything else. If I hit the headlight switch, they'll turn on even if the key is not in the ignition. When I charge the battery its usually at 12.52 volts, give or take maybe .02 volts.After running for an hour, its usually more or less the same. After a few hours, itll have dropped by maybe .01 or .02 volts or so, depending on how fast I was going and such. I can do some riding and get more exact numbers if need be.
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Post by alleyoop on Jul 8, 2014 22:53:43 GMT -5
If his lights come on as soon as he turns the key on that does not mean he has a DC CDI, all that means is the lights are being fed 12v from the ignition . To find if a scoot is a DC fired CDI you put the KEY ON and test the Bottom Wire on the 2 plug on the CDI, if it reads 12v you have a DC CDI, if nothing then the CDI is an AC CDI fed from the Stator. The other way is start the scoot and take the positive wire off the Battery if it Kills your motor right away you most likely have a DC CDI. Scoots with DC CDIs will not run if the battery is bad. Alleyoop
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