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Post by prodigit on Aug 25, 2013 18:39:50 GMT -5
It just hit me, that we, as people, can be very arrogant against the Chinese, for their 'crappy' builds compared to ours.
But I think we take out of the equation, that hundreds, if not thousands of chinese employees work countless hours of repetitive work, for a tiny paycheck, just so that their products might be purchased by a foreign country, and people purchasing them, can enjoy the ride at a fraction of the cost of their local products.
They are doing the work, so that we can have the fun!
The Chinese are basically opening up their hands, and saying "this is what we offer you".
You can either take it for what it is (the product), or leave it; but this fact is true:
They offer a product that is greatly enjoyable, for a greatly discounted price.
They offer it to us, and thus our rightful attitude should be gratefulness for them willing to risk it all, their future, their countless hours of serial working, their ingenuity (however small it may be),...
Be grateful for the product they are offering, that brings diversity on the market!
Another thing,
you may be a very clever mechanic, you may have several degrees in mechanics and engineering, but I think very few people can actually manufacture a scooter from scratch, that's even close to the cheapest ugliest chinese scoot out there!
When I looked at my $700 MC-05-127, even something as basic as making an aluminum frame that would support the engine and wheels, was out of the question for me!
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Post by bhinch on Aug 25, 2013 19:06:56 GMT -5
Well said....I have enjoyed my scoot and will continue to ride it daily. Of course, I have had some probs, but mainly I just installed other working add on's. Like manual choke, HID's, LED's and recovered the seat. We just don't produce much anymore, so the over the pond countries have to take up the slack. I am proud of 10,000 miles on my scoot and the past 5 yrs have been a bonding of East & West. Enjoy Your Ride....
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 26, 2013 1:07:03 GMT -5
I must agree...
The Chinese government and those who control business and manufacturing in "the state" are certainly "cheaters" at best, but... The workers have my complete respect for what they make, regardless of the underhanded practices of the state. No matter how fast and loose the bosses play with international patent rules, and REALLY screw over the employees, THOSE employees still make the best product they can for the money charged.
After more than 50 years in the American workplace, I can truly attest to the fact that American business can be every bit as cruel, every bit as dishonest and cheat every bit as well as any Chinese Communist state-run entity. Americans have just learned to be better hypocrites, more adept at hiding their dirty little secrets concerning employee abuse, price-fixing, etc.
I was amazed to check into the Xingyue site, and learn that (according to them) they pay a "state fee" or bribe, to supposedly be a "stand-alone" company, NOT fully controlled by the Chinese government. If that's true, it makes sense. Pay a couple million dollar bribe to keep "Mousey Tongue" OUT of your hair, and your employees will make more and better products than your slave-state competitors. That allows your company to earn more, and keep more millions than the bribe cost you.
And THAT, Comrade, is what is called CAPITALISM.
Leo (seeing the rat-race is over, and the rats won) in Texas
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Post by spandi on Aug 26, 2013 1:20:55 GMT -5
Comrade Leo, you are to needink to be less cynical and to embraceink comrade Stalin's 5 year plan for Scooter workers paradise! Before Boris and Natasha take you on all expenses paid "vacation" in Vinter Wonderland of Siberia as "incentive" (You understand?....GOOD!) Now onwards to glorious 150cc collective future!  |
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Post by rockynv on Aug 26, 2013 4:30:42 GMT -5
The workers motives are to get better living conditions and quality of life for their families. Some actually had no choice and had the occupation to assemble scooters working in slave labor conditions assigned to them. Only since they hosted the Olympics was hosted there has the situation really started improving.
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Post by tarkus on Aug 26, 2013 4:49:12 GMT -5
The workers motives are to get better living conditions and quality of life for their families. Some actually had no choice and had the occupation to assemble scooters working in slave labor conditions assigned to them. Only since they hosted the Olympics was hosted there has the situation really started improving. Thankyou. For a while I thought that the "gift" of low priced products talked of here was to be respected. It's not. We can try to kid ourselves about who and how these scooters are made but the fact remains that china cares about nothing but the money. It doesn't matter that workers toil in horrid conditions for little pay. When one worker goes down remove them and add another. Yes American industry can be a nasty place but since the early 1900's there has been at least some recourse to the "robber Barron" method of factory control. To even make a comparison is ludicrous. China makes American industry, as bad as some companies may be, look like saints. I consume as many china made products every day as the next guy but never forget what I saw in china. No these people didn't set out to give us a gift. |
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Post by spandi on Aug 26, 2013 6:00:43 GMT -5
This is the Znen plant (where my scoot was made) though not perfect or even up to date, it's far from "slave Labor" conditions that keep being bandied about. (the second video is from the local "Znen TV" station.)
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Post by tarkus on Aug 26, 2013 7:04:12 GMT -5
You're kidding me?
This is china you are talking about and that is government sanctioned video made for world consumption. This is the same country that firewalls the Internet. Little gets out that the government doesn't want out.
You're a smart guy I can't believe you buy into that.
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Post by tarkus on Aug 26, 2013 7:23:37 GMT -5
Even if I was to take the video at face value , and im not I would need to see the same from down the supply line. Who and how were those tires made ? Metal parts ? Those crappy fuel lines ?
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Post by spandi on Aug 26, 2013 7:37:59 GMT -5
Are the working conditions in China at the same level as western countries? No, that's a given. What I don't buy into is unsubstantiated stories (to the point of being apocryphal) of 6 year olds being forced to assemble scooters under the watchful eye of machine gun toting guards. Think about it. China is a vast country with a potentially unlimited workforce, clamoring to do the jobs. Who needs slavery when China's manufacturers can have their pick of the litter just for the asking? Are worker rights and safety on par with U.S. and western standards? Again, they are not. But it is a rapidly evolving economy and society as well. Sooner or later they'll "Get it right" Then we'll all look back wistfully when Chinese scoots WEREN"T 5 or 6k a pop.
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Post by tarkus on Aug 26, 2013 8:58:43 GMT -5
I spent 20 years selling product to the Sinopec Catalyst Company in china so I have a little insight into their manufacturing methods. I was based on the mainland for a large part of that time.There is nothing unsubstantiated about children in factories.
If you want to think that your scooter is free of parts made by children with no other choice have at it. It's my opinion based on the materials needed to build said scooter its near impossible. Metal means mines and in china mines in the provences mean child labor.
and that's just the start.
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Post by spandi on Aug 26, 2013 9:18:25 GMT -5
Let me get this straight. You spent 20 years doing business with the regime and yet now you're assuming a tone of moral authority? How about I just buy a Kymco S200, would that make you happy?
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Post by prodigit on Aug 26, 2013 12:08:21 GMT -5
Lolz, China is getting developed, just like US and europe was in the 1900's. Children go to school there, they don't work in factories. People say that they do, and there are a lot of 'conspiracy theorists' amongst people, and I only abhor their stories, and the lack of data to back it up, other than that they 'heard someone say that' and they 'read online that'... Yeah, I can make a story too online, and have many people go crazy how china uses infants to beat them up and force them into labor, because infants are cheaper than kids.. Please, use your common sense! The chinese products are relatively good, and the fact that many get over 10k miles on their scoots proves this! That, combined with the fact that you can buy a new scoot every year, and still be under the price of a Japanese scoot, AND the fact that you've had the pleasure to ride 4 different scoots, instead of only one jap bike, makes that buying Chinese products makes so much more sense. You can literally buy 2-4 chinese scoots for 1 Japanese scoot, meaning you could buy a different color for each outfit or mood (a black one for the mean mood, red one for the speeding mood, yellow one for the funky mood, and a white one for the cool mood) |
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Post by fugaziiv on Aug 26, 2013 12:13:33 GMT -5
You're kidding me? This is china you are talking about and that is government sanctioned video made for world consumption. This is the same country that firewalls the Internet. Little gets out that the government doesn't want out. You're a smart guy I can't believe you buy into that. The first video is indeed the ZNEN factory. I should know, I've been there. Matt |
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Post by spandi on Aug 26, 2013 12:19:05 GMT -5
So how many little kids were putting scooters together?
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