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Post by w650 on Oct 31, 2016 8:13:53 GMT -5
There are so many things to consider about a Grom. For one, size is only relevant to individuals. Commuting on a 150cc scooter would seem awfully silly to the owner of a 2300cc Triumph Rocket with bags and a windshield. It has 12" wheels-Say, doesn't the 300cc Vespa have 12" wheels? It's slow-I don't know that 50+ mph can be considered slow. Jump off and tell me how the road rash feels. I saw one zipping through traffic with an accessory pipe recently. It didn't look slow to me. It has a chain-I've had a few bikes with chains. New lubes and O Rings have chains lasting to 30,000 miles. Like people who commute in Mini Coopers, a Grom might just be perfect for some. As would this. www.kawasaki.com/Products/2017-Z125-PRO |
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Post by w650 on Oct 31, 2016 7:44:48 GMT -5
I would love to see the BSA name revived but I don't think that even if they do you'll see it here. Why? Because court costs from frivolous law suits are insane here. I'm certain that's why CF Moto has gone the all ATV, UTV route in this Country. I can understand Mahindra dropping trucks in favor of agriculture equipment. They make a fortune even without the trucks. Farmers don't sue because they had an accident texting while digging.
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Post by w650 on Oct 31, 2016 6:34:46 GMT -5
If speed was the only consideration a high powered Italian scooter would be fine. The Italians have always been capable of building high powered, lightweight machines. It's longevity that they fall short on. Having commuted on one big Japanese motorcycle for over 100,000 miles I can tell you that you will be astounded at the things that wear out beyond 50,000 miles. Brake switches, wheel bearings, even wires rubbing through from the vibration and motion that a vehicle experiences.
Read old entries of Steve Williams "Scooter in the Sticks". His Vespa 250 has experienced spark plug caps failing, wiring harness flameout, a failing fuel pump and, recently, a dying voltage regulator besides all the belt changes, roller replacements and routine maintenance. All in 32,000 miles and nine years of daily commuting. Fortunately his friend Paul has a truck to retrieve him when the scooter stops.
A bike.
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Post by w650 on Oct 28, 2016 16:12:55 GMT -5
I'm going to be, probably, the sole dissenter on a scooter as a commuter vehicle. In short, the needs of a scooter so far outweigh a motorcycle it's atrocious. Maybe if you get a scooter like a BMW 650, a 650 Burgman or a Silver Wing it's not big deal. They all have big wheels and non-belt final drives.
My CF Moto Fashion is a direct copy of the Honda Helix and the things about it that drive me crazy are non-Chinese related. The skimpy 10" rear wheel eats up tires every 5,000 miles at best. The stock 12" front hung on for 10,000 miles. Belts last 10,000 miles if you're lucky. Rollers in the CVT and skimpy clutch pads are always hanging in your mind. They all need valve adjustments every season and oil changes every 1,000 miles.
I was told newer Hondas are speced to oil changes every 5,000 miles but I have my doubts. If I was commuting again I would use one of my bikes...gladly. The Honda Rebel makes my Fashion look like a maintenance monster. I just adjusted the drive chain on the Rebel after 10,000 miles. New chain lubes and O-Ring chains are the definition of durability.
And I'm not just talking my scooter. I've lurked at Modern Vespa long enough to see high maintenance there too on constantly used scooters so cost is irrelevant.
My lowest maintenance machine right now is the 1983 Kawasaki 750. Shaft drive, four quarts of oil and spark plugs "Right There". That would be my go-to machine.
A middleweight shaft or belt drive Japanese cruiser with hydraulic valves would be best for constant commuting of any distance. Saddle bags and a windshield would make it perfect.
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Post by w650 on Oct 27, 2016 10:01:52 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Oct 27, 2016 6:24:07 GMT -5
My favorite comment of Patrick's.
After owning an Aprilia motorcycle for a short time I'll never buy another Italian made vehicle again.
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Post by w650 on Oct 27, 2016 6:18:59 GMT -5
Oh, you know how less informed people say Chinese scooters don't last. Yeah I don't ride mine much anymore as its got 70,000 on it now and things are needing done. Some stuff is almost impossible to get now that AutoMoto has gone out of business  |
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Post by w650 on Oct 27, 2016 6:14:21 GMT -5
Here's what I remember about Baccio scooters. Several years ago we had a member here named Automotoguy. Luke eventually chased him off. In addition to the Automoto he had a Baccio that he used daily. Living in Georgia he rode about 100 miles a day commuting and running errands. This video is of his Baccio 150.
"I sold this about a year ago with 30,000 on it and it still ran fine. I think as long as you care for it and don't run it wide open all the time it will probably last as long as you want to keep it."
His Automoto has stratospheric mileage on it.
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Post by w650 on Oct 24, 2016 14:54:32 GMT -5
I ride pretty hard, and have compared the fit and finish, quality of workmanship, and so on, with Chinese scoots and I've found both the Kymco and Honda to feel more solid and substantial.
I don't disagree on that. At the price they sold for a $3000+ machine should be better than a $1700 or $1200 one. What I do disagree with is that they aren't that much better than a Bintelli or Wolf scooter for what most people will do with them.
Not everyone rides to Massachusetts on a 150cc scooter. That's what I have motorcycles for. At that, the 2006 Rebel I bought for my Daughter only cost $1700, used with 9,500 miles on it.
But, like people who want a Vespa, people buy what they want and can afford.
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Post by w650 on Oct 24, 2016 9:02:28 GMT -5
Two things. First, As of now I've handed the Kymco over to my stepson. I can't sell it now without taking a depressing hit. Since I have almost $1100 into it I would lose over three or four hundred dollars. In an age of used $600 Chinese 50cc scooters for sale on Craigslist it would be a loss.
Second. The problem with "Peace of mind" is how much are you willing to pay? Sorry Paul but paying $3500 for a Honda 150cc is off my charts. I can nail down a Bintelli Fury for half that. We have a different scale of value. I know you spent close to $3,000 OTD for the Kymco People so maybe a Honda doesn't looks so bad at that price.
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Post by w650 on Oct 21, 2016 13:06:55 GMT -5
Thanks Borg. I can see complaining when it's justified. This bordered on sociopathic.
The intimidation potential of this Like/Dislike nonsense may be discouraging posting all views in a topic discussion.
Not to me. I was digging having 3 Likes and 3 dislikes. Now I see 4 Likes-Darn.
"Truth doesn't get you many friends but it does get you the right ones."
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Post by w650 on Oct 21, 2016 8:51:11 GMT -5
I understand the whole concept of brand name being better than Chinese Leo, but let me tell you my sad tale of contradiction.
In 2015 I bought a 2010 Kymco Like 50cc two stroke to flip. "It has an electrical Gremlin" the sweet young lady who owned it said. For $300 I bought a $2200 MSRP machine to flip. "How hard can working on a two stroke be," thought I.
Then the fun began. After a lot of digging I discovered that the $75.00, plus shipping, starter motor was burned out. Then once I did get it started it ran badly and didn't make voltage. Another $100 with shipping for a stator.
At that time my wife passed away and I just didn't have the heart to work on it so I took the scooter to a local small engine/lawn tractor/ATV/Snowmobile shop and said install the stator. They discovered that the scooter had about 60 psi compression with a burned piston and scorched barrel. I said, "Fix it".
A 72cc big bore kit from Ebay was installed and the scooter now runs like a top.
The bad news. $660 for the top end work done at low shop rates, $200 for a stator and starter motor, $300 original purchase price.
Moral of the story for me. If a stupid owner can smoke off a $2200 scooter by failing to keep it in two stroke oil what do you think all the Bozos yelling "Chinese crap!" are up to? Somehow my 8 year old Bashan is running just fine.
I let a shop fix it to illustrate the flaw in Brand Name ownership. A repair of those "Reliable" scooters cost an arm and a leg. If I had taken it to a "Real" Kymco dealer that $660 repair would have been closer to $1000.
Ungabunga just had to replace his PCX's clutch at a mere 10,000 miles. He did it himself at considerable savings over a dealer repair.
I'm not so naive to think a Chinese scooter is a Honda but I would take a $2000 Chinese 250 over a $3500 Honda 150 any day of the week. You need a license for both.
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Post by w650 on Oct 20, 2016 12:41:11 GMT -5
You aren't making any friends here with such negativity. Scrappy has more good marks than bad. They refunded your money. I don't see the beef.
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Post by w650 on Oct 20, 2016 6:04:19 GMT -5
And perhaps some people make mistakes but rectify them in the end. People should be happy with the end result.
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Post by w650 on Oct 19, 2016 17:17:28 GMT -5
I can't help but feel that some of the impressions are based on dated facts. I have seen the new crop of scooters from Bintelli and Wolf. They are a far cry from the China scoots of 2007 & 08. While it is downplayed mightily the new scooters from Lance that are garnering rave reviews are built in SYM's China plant as are many of SYM and Kymco's scooters. One needs to look no further than Josh riding his Bintelli Scorch 50cc from Michigan to Key West to see that inexpensive and reliable scooters from China exist. Leo didn't just ride alone on his Xingyue, he had his wife as passenger if I recall and put many miles on the scooter that way. No doubt a Kymco Grand Vista is a fabulous scooter. It cost in the neighborhood of $3500 in its day. Which, by the way, was more than a Honda Rebel 250. Below is a rental fleet in Myrtle Beach. If the scooters were all broken down the owner would go broke. Instead he told me he's very happy with Chinese scooters.  |
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