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Post by davidji on Oct 28, 2016 0:50:09 GMT -5
Do you do a long freeway commute on a scooter? Curious your thoughts. Also the fuel tank range of your scooter over your freeway commute. Do you operate heated gear in the Winter?
Thinking about switching to a scooter for my 100+ mile round trip freeway commute. I've done about 100k miles of this commute on motorcycles over the last several years. An issue with my arm has me unable to operate my clutch (left) lever at the moment, but I can operate the left brake lever on my mountain bike, and I'm expecting I could operate that brake lever on a scooter.
There are a few scooters on my radar right now--I've been mostly thinking about used ones.
I'm in California and I do see scooters out on the freeway at commute time.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 28, 2016 4:06:02 GMT -5
Depends on the interstate but I have commuted from Tampa to Orlando on my Sport City 250 which will go about 150 miles on a tank of gas and will keep up nicely with 70 mph interstate traffic (which generally travels at 80) as long as you have a Puig Sport Fairing on it and wear a full faced helmet with the face shield closed. Top speed is around 100 mph and tires are 15" while weight is about 326 lbs. The Orlando commute is around 250 miles round trip. A BV350, BV500, Mp3 500 or Scarabeo 500 would be even better without having to deal with the greater weight of a Burgman, Majesty or Silverwing.
An Aprilia Mana 850 or any of the 700cc Honda DCT Automatics would also be great choices if you prefer a motorcycle configuration.
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Post by cyborg55 on Oct 28, 2016 7:50:53 GMT -5
Not to bash Chinese scoots but I would take the long look at sym kymco or tgb (Taiwan golden bee),,,first choice being kymco,,,sym is great but hard to get parts for,,,,,also you may look at the Yamaha smax,,,(kymco made),,,fast great brakes,,,but you pay for it,,,but in the long run worth every penny,,,and there are some great deals to be had second hand or even a year or two leftover,,,(that's how I got my genuine Stella )
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Post by w650 on Oct 28, 2016 16:12:55 GMT -5
I'm going to be, probably, the sole dissenter on a scooter as a commuter vehicle. In short, the needs of a scooter so far outweigh a motorcycle it's atrocious. Maybe if you get a scooter like a BMW 650, a 650 Burgman or a Silver Wing it's not big deal. They all have big wheels and non-belt final drives.
My CF Moto Fashion is a direct copy of the Honda Helix and the things about it that drive me crazy are non-Chinese related. The skimpy 10" rear wheel eats up tires every 5,000 miles at best. The stock 12" front hung on for 10,000 miles. Belts last 10,000 miles if you're lucky. Rollers in the CVT and skimpy clutch pads are always hanging in your mind. They all need valve adjustments every season and oil changes every 1,000 miles.
I was told newer Hondas are speced to oil changes every 5,000 miles but I have my doubts. If I was commuting again I would use one of my bikes...gladly. The Honda Rebel makes my Fashion look like a maintenance monster. I just adjusted the drive chain on the Rebel after 10,000 miles. New chain lubes and O-Ring chains are the definition of durability.
And I'm not just talking my scooter. I've lurked at Modern Vespa long enough to see high maintenance there too on constantly used scooters so cost is irrelevant.
My lowest maintenance machine right now is the 1983 Kawasaki 750. Shaft drive, four quarts of oil and spark plugs "Right There". That would be my go-to machine.
A middleweight shaft or belt drive Japanese cruiser with hydraulic valves would be best for constant commuting of any distance. Saddle bags and a windshield would make it perfect.
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Post by ungabunga on Oct 28, 2016 20:32:24 GMT -5
Here's my take.
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Post by davidji on Oct 28, 2016 20:40:08 GMT -5
Interesting thanks.
Hadn't considered maintenance issues.
The scooters that were on my radar were the BV350, the Scarabeo 500GT, and the Tmax 500. Wasn't thinking of a maxiscooter like a Burgman 650 or Silverwing. Maybe a Tmax is getting close in size?
Might go ride a demo BV in the morning.
I had considered a DCT bike, and haven't really ruled it out. There are few suitable ones new or used around here. The closest dealer has nothing suitable. Haven't been to other dealers, but there are some NC700X DCT and Africa Twin DCT bikes around.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 28, 2016 23:20:54 GMT -5
Interesting thanks. Hadn't considered maintenance issues. The scooters that were on my radar were the BV350, the Scarabeo 500GT, and the Tmax 500. Wasn't thinking of a maxiscooter like a Burgman 650 or Silverwing. Maybe a Tmax is getting close in size? Might go ride a demo BV in the morning. I had considered a DCT bike, and haven't really ruled it out. There are few suitable ones new or used around here. The closest dealer has nothing suitable. Haven't been to other dealers, but there are some NC700X DCT and Africa Twin DCT bikes around. Any of the Piaggio based scooters are going to have around 6,500 mile oil change schedules and valve adjustments will generally be good for around 25,000 miles between checks. The BV350 will have the edge on fuel economy due to its boxed stroke wet clutch engine plus the ergonomics will be better for someone with a mild disability then a Burgman. I found the SilverWing to feel very top heavy compared to either the BV350, BV500 or Scarabeo 500ie. The older Scarabeo 500GT has very limited underseat storage and is also a bit top heavy while the newer Scarabeo 500ie is better on the weight and has much more underseat storage along with a more modern fuel injection system (similar to the BV350/500) than the older 500GT(Big Beo). You may want to look at the Honda CTX700 DCT or Honda CTX700N DCT (N for Naked without the extra fairings). I found that in traffic the NC700X DCT put the foot pegs in my calves when stopped which got irritating after a while yet the cruisers did not so even though I am not a big cruiser fan I found them a nicer ride. Add to it that you can get the naked CTX for thousand less than the NC and many thousands less than the Africa Twins makes me lean towards the naked CTX. The other plus to the 700cc DCT bikes is that while they are better equipped for interstate travel they get better fuel economy than a 250cc scooter in town or on the highway not to mention that you will be riding on longer lasting motorcycle tires. This Cager on Two Wheels review is interesting since I believe he owns the NC700. Note his reaction once he gets settled in on the CTX:
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Post by davidji on Oct 29, 2016 0:53:42 GMT -5
Thanks.
There's an older 'beo 500 on craigslist which is how I learned about it. None of the newer ones. There are a couple of BV350s nearby.
The CTX700 doesn't have the fuel capacity or range of the other DCT bikes. They seem to have a glut of them. Leave it to Honda to bring in too many of the lesser (for my needs anyway) bikes, and too few of the better ones. I think a cruiser could work for me with a back rest. Otherwise I like a slight forward lean. Enough so my back doesn't hurt, and not so much my neck hurts.
I've seen a few reviews from cagerontwowheels--including for the NC750X which if Honda had brought to the US, I probably would have bought in the past--but I haven't seen this one. I'll look.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 29, 2016 11:07:28 GMT -5
The CTX700N has a 3.17 gallon fuel capacity which at around 60 mpg will give you a 180 mile range. The Scarabeo 500 GT does have a 4.5 gallon tank fuel economy will only be around 50 mpg so range will be slightly better however unless you are a tall person you may not find it easy to ride in the city. You have to play Goldilocks to be sure.
If your round trip is 100 to 150 miles round trip you will be filling up at least daily with most scooters or other automatic bikes.
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Post by davidji on Oct 29, 2016 15:19:31 GMT -5
Since I was thinking of bigger scooters I didn't think that would apply. I rode a demo BV350 this morning and it applied more than I would have liked. It was fun to ride around, but it didn't feel like it was meant for freeway cruising. Rain grooves and wind affected it more than I would have liked. Some of it is probably things I'd get used to. But there were things I might not. Not sure there's any point demoing the Scarabeo 500GT now. Not sure how much more stable it would be at freeway speeds.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 30, 2016 7:55:09 GMT -5
If you found a properly set up BV350 too unstable then you would likely only feel comfortable on a 650+ lb machine. The Big Beo GT would be more to your liking then or maybe and older Atlantic 500 otherwise it would be and Burgman Executive 650 or maybe a Wing or possibly the BMW in a scooter. The SR850 would be nice however they do not import it to the US so the Mana 850 rated at 130+ mph would be the closest to that in an automatic motorcycle. Rain groove issues will be tire related and could be due to improper inflation of the tires on the demo bike. Many dealers either severely under inflate the tires on scooters to give them a heavier smoother feeling ride or over inflate them for slightly zippier performance. If the bike was used there is the possibility that the tires need replacing or that the previous owner cheaped out and simply put a very bad choice in tires on the bike. Also check the preload setting on the rear shocks. Just about any Piaggio/Aprilia product from the 125cc on up will have about a 460 lb weight capacity so chances are the dealer will have set them to the lowest setting for the softest ride which will impact highway manners. The steering head angle on a scooter is set for manuverability so anything that impacts the balance of the bike such as tire pressure or rear shock preload can have a major impact on highway manners. For reference what speeds are you looking to maintain on the highway? While the BV350 is considered a Highway Touring Scooter capable of cruising nicely at 80 mph it would not be up to solid + mph operation for extended periods of time. Myself I am used to touring on a 250 that with the Sport Fairing is capable of 100 mph and does well for me on the Interstate however I am used to riding light bikes on the Expressway. I would not consider riding a 150 though on the Interstate or even a 65 mph State Road.
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Post by davidji on Oct 30, 2016 13:37:13 GMT -5
At commute time traffic will vary from stop and go to maybe indicated 80MPH.
Interesting point about the tire pressures.
I'm always impressed when people can go 100MPH on a 250, as the last 650 twin I commuted on wouldn't go faster. Well maybe with enough patience and road, or a good tuck.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 31, 2016 1:04:33 GMT -5
At commute time traffic will vary from stop and go to maybe indicated 80MPH. Interesting point about the tire pressures. I'm always impressed when people can go 100MPH on a 250, as the last 650 twin I commuted on wouldn't go faster. Well maybe with enough patience and road, or a good tuck. Depends on the 250. On a low compression twin 600 it will be torquey but won't have the top end that you can get from a high compression 250 single. Suzuki had a major shock when they sold Aprilia some of their bare 250cc blocks and saw Aprilia build them into 150+ mph rockets instead of the barely ninety mph slugs people were used to seeing from Suzuki. I rode for a while on one trip being followed by a young man on a 600cc Suzuki Bandit and when he finally caught up at a stop light his first question was if I was riding a 750 and after he found out it was just a 250 he wanted to know if I realized how fast I was going. I pointed to the fact that the bike did have a speedometer. I believe his was an older low compression carbureted 600 compared to a high compression fuel injected 250 with a 4 valve head. Besides that his bike was the more naked version of the Bandit with no windshield or fairings. The right sport fairing can also make a very big difference in top speed and how long it takes to get there. When I put the Puig Sport Fairing instead of a windshield on my 250 it was an Oh Wow! moment as I wondered "Why did I wait so long?"
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Post by w650 on Oct 31, 2016 6:34:46 GMT -5
If speed was the only consideration a high powered Italian scooter would be fine. The Italians have always been capable of building high powered, lightweight machines. It's longevity that they fall short on. Having commuted on one big Japanese motorcycle for over 100,000 miles I can tell you that you will be astounded at the things that wear out beyond 50,000 miles. Brake switches, wheel bearings, even wires rubbing through from the vibration and motion that a vehicle experiences.
Read old entries of Steve Williams "Scooter in the Sticks". His Vespa 250 has experienced spark plug caps failing, wiring harness flameout, a failing fuel pump and, recently, a dying voltage regulator besides all the belt changes, roller replacements and routine maintenance. All in 32,000 miles and nine years of daily commuting. Fortunately his friend Paul has a truck to retrieve him when the scooter stops.
A bike.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 31, 2016 11:29:30 GMT -5
If speed was the only consideration a high powered Italian scooter would be fine. The Italians have always been capable of building high powered, lightweight machines. It's longevity that they fall short on. Having commuted on one big Japanese motorcycle for over 100,000 miles I can tell you that you will be astounded at the things that wear out beyond 50,000 miles. Brake switches, wheel bearings, even wires rubbing through from the vibration and motion that a vehicle experiences. Read old entries of Steve Williams "Scooter in the Sticks". His Vespa 250 has experienced spark plug caps failing, wiring harness flameout, a failing fuel pump and, recently, a dying voltage regulator besides all the belt changes, roller replacements and routine maintenance. All in 32,000 miles and nine years of daily commuting. Fortunately his friend Paul has a truck to retrieve him when the scooter stops. A bike. And my Aprilia with the same mileage has had none of those issues. Belt changes are at 12,000 to 15,000 miles unless you inflict harm on yourself by purchasing a bargain belt. Spark plug cap failures are usually because poor quality or very old stock belts were used or potentially from the use of kevlar belts that tend to score drive faces causing excess vibrations. Some riders unfortunately shoot themselves in the foot playing games with drive belts as the vibrations they cause bring about all sorts of collateral damages.
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