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Post by ungabunga on Sept 26, 2016 22:32:37 GMT -5
When it comes to buying a scooter, it's good to know which brands are best. Note that the list is not comprehensive, but more of an overview.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 1, 2016 11:57:15 GMT -5
Ungabunga,
Great vid! Have a bone!I agree with your advice. And now that this old Harley guy is a die-hard Kymco rider, AND former Chinese 150 rider, I can tell you all it is good advice to only go with Chinese rides IF you are willing to be ready for some extra work in return for the low initial cost. Obviously, some Chinese scoots are trouble-free, but VERY often, they are not. I wrenched on my Xingyue 150 for THREE FULL SEASONS getting it right, BUT... Then it was absolutely trouble-free for four seasons. It was still running perfectly when I traded it in on my Kymco. Yes, potholes ARE a PIA on 12" wheels... My Grandvista 250 has 12-inchers. It depends on how FAST you are going when meeting the pothole... LOL! Fast enough carries you OVER the hole. Too slow will plant the wheel IN the hole. Not good... Seriously though, any wheels smaller than the "big-wheel" rides with 17" or larger are a little hard on rough surfaces. With good, speed-rated tires, well-balanced however, they cruise the highway at 70+ smooth as a Harley. And I must admit, I'm hopelessly addicted to the look of small wheel scooters. 
If you REALLY have a "Jones" for something irresistible, quick, but pricey on 10" wheels, ya jus' gotta check out a Genuine Buddy 170... But ya gotta remember, this old geezer used to run 80-mph, (often sneaking up to 100-mph) on Chicago freeways on a McCulloch-powered 40-pound mini-bike on 5" wheels as a kid... Even though I had an "animal" Harley chopper in the garage... Woo-HOO! FUN! But NOT recommended now that I'm 70 and still alive and riding..... 
Here's a pic of "Minnie Mouse" when I first got her for wheel-size reference. You can see the wheels ARE a tad small on a 250. The Grandvista was a flat-floor version of the original "Bet n' Win" 250. Kymco has come a LONG way from these early scoots, but they are still great rides, and nearly bullet-proof... I've yet to meet a Taiwan-made Kymco or SYM rider who didn't love his/her scooter.
  Above is a Kymco "People 200" I rode as a loaner while my dealer changed my tires. It looks decidedly "Italian" with its 17" wheels. It truly amazed me, partly because of the large wheels smoothness. Big difference from 12" to 17" wheels. This little blue scoot felt as light as a Schwinn bicycle, and was EASY to ride, and to put onto the center-stand. Being an air-cooled GY6 type engine (163cc, NOT a true 200) surprisingly, it had plenty of acceleration and would haul my 230-pound butt to 65-mph with ease. It ran like we WISH our Chinese 150's would... Yup, I like Kymcos!Whatever size, brand, style, etc. you like, DO test ride everything possible before deciding. You'll be happier in the long run by not getting something you don't enjoy...
Ride safe, whatever you ride!Leo in Texas |
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Post by ungabunga on Oct 1, 2016 14:07:17 GMT -5
Leo, would you mind if I grabbed this and tagged you as a "Guest writer" on my written blog? This is a perfect summation.
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Post by ungabunga on Oct 1, 2016 14:57:59 GMT -5
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 1, 2016 22:59:35 GMT -5
Ungabunga,
You're most welcome to use my posts any time. I tend to get too long-winded, but that comes with getting to be an old geezer... For the record, I've been a big-bike cruiser/chopper rider for over a half-century, but nowadays I'm totally sold on twist-n'-go scooters! Too much arthritis now to climb onto the big bikes, and any scooter 200cc and larger will do about anything I need, and at an affordable price! Especially if you'll accept an old beater like the mouse! She's OLD, she's WELL WORN and has plenty of miles on her clock... But she'll still hit an honest 82-mph on the flat, with no wind. For those thinking "gosh"! That's only a realistic uphill, with wind (real-life conditions) cruise of 65 to 70 max. Still not bad for an outdated old gal.
Ride safe!Leo
PS: If you hang with me very much, you'll end up putting whitewalls on your scooter rims, and a light-up goose on the nose... LOLOLOL... Oh, YES, and some black n' white checkerboard trim is in "Minnie Mouse's" future, along with some fringe and vintage glass reflectors on the bags...
You gotta consider I still have a functioning 8-track record and playback on my home stereo which I got as an 8th grade grad present (back in 1960)... And it still rocks the walls! When you get old, this stuff is considered "normal"...
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 1, 2016 23:23:36 GMT -5
I just checked out your blogspot. VERY nice!Your handle may be "Scootinfool" but you're NO fool... Have a bone for the crosses and scripture reference. Good witness.
From this old grumpy Christian chopper jockey, Be Blessed, and have another bone!Sincerely, Leo
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Post by w650 on Oct 19, 2016 17:17:28 GMT -5
I can't help but feel that some of the impressions are based on dated facts. I have seen the new crop of scooters from Bintelli and Wolf. They are a far cry from the China scoots of 2007 & 08. While it is downplayed mightily the new scooters from Lance that are garnering rave reviews are built in SYM's China plant as are many of SYM and Kymco's scooters. One needs to look no further than Josh riding his Bintelli Scorch 50cc from Michigan to Key West to see that inexpensive and reliable scooters from China exist. Leo didn't just ride alone on his Xingyue, he had his wife as passenger if I recall and put many miles on the scooter that way. No doubt a Kymco Grand Vista is a fabulous scooter. It cost in the neighborhood of $3500 in its day. Which, by the way, was more than a Honda Rebel 250. Below is a rental fleet in Myrtle Beach. If the scooters were all broken down the owner would go broke. Instead he told me he's very happy with Chinese scooters.  |
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Post by cookees on Oct 20, 2016 8:36:16 GMT -5
I winter just north of Myrtle Beach and have talked to quite a few dealers in the area. The 50cc China-scoots work well in a rental situation, providing you don't keep them in the fleet too long. One dealer told me he get's them for right around $400 delivered, and is able to rent them for $130 a day three day minimum during Bike Week. At the time he was gearing up inventory to over 120 bikes. He rents them the rest of the season and then sells them at near cost. Great business model in a very unique situation. There are no registration, or inspection or insurance costs to be absorbed. His disclaimer and rental contract are a laywer's wet dream,and South Carolina judges and juries are loath to award claims to anyone who signs away his or her rights.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 20, 2016 13:48:04 GMT -5
w650,
I'm sure my personal experience IS based on some outdated facts. No doubt new Chinese scoots are light-years better than those of a decade ago. My Kymco dealer now sells Lance in his lineup and has had no real problems. They are however, quite a bit more expensive than similar Chinese products of the past.
I believe the old adage is true, that China will provide you ANY quality level you're willing to pay for, from absolute junk, to premium quality. Honda had engines made by Kymco in Taiwan, and now, Taiwanese rides are being made in China. Things change all the time.
I was VERY tempted to buy a new Chinese 250 for less than $2,000 but changed my mind after riding many used 250's including a 2-year-old, very low-miles Chinese model at my Kymco dealer.
The story behind "Minnie Mouse" is mostly of the original owner. He was the one who rode her "from New York to Los Angeles, and Canada to Mexico" 2-up with his Wife and loaded down with luggage. The old scoot had 15,000 miles like that on the clock, which I'd consider pretty hard miles. I've put another 2,500 miles on with no problems whatsoever. NO oil use, NO coolant use, EVERYTHING original still works perfectly... But... The minty Chinese used 250 was $1,200 and I paid $2,200 for the Kymco that was 7 years OLDER with 3 times the miles.
Used prices have PLUMETED since I bought the old mouse... Some members have snagged similar Kymco scoots and NEWER for under a thousand bucks... A whole LOT of scoot for the money!
If I was in the market for a 150 class scoot, I'd probably STILL go Chinese... Especially the Lance. The Lance Italian-style "turtle-deck" model with motorcycle-style bars and instruments is nearly irresistible...
For anyone looking for a new scooter, I'd advise him/her to check out the Chinese models along with all the others. Then make a decision based on a combination of price, feel, spec's. and which ride best matches the buyer's overall expectations.
What's best for one rider may not be good at all for another... Whatever you end up with though...
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by w650 on Oct 21, 2016 8:51:11 GMT -5
I understand the whole concept of brand name being better than Chinese Leo, but let me tell you my sad tale of contradiction.
In 2015 I bought a 2010 Kymco Like 50cc two stroke to flip. "It has an electrical Gremlin" the sweet young lady who owned it said. For $300 I bought a $2200 MSRP machine to flip. "How hard can working on a two stroke be," thought I.
Then the fun began. After a lot of digging I discovered that the $75.00, plus shipping, starter motor was burned out. Then once I did get it started it ran badly and didn't make voltage. Another $100 with shipping for a stator.
At that time my wife passed away and I just didn't have the heart to work on it so I took the scooter to a local small engine/lawn tractor/ATV/Snowmobile shop and said install the stator. They discovered that the scooter had about 60 psi compression with a burned piston and scorched barrel. I said, "Fix it".
A 72cc big bore kit from Ebay was installed and the scooter now runs like a top.
The bad news. $660 for the top end work done at low shop rates, $200 for a stator and starter motor, $300 original purchase price.
Moral of the story for me. If a stupid owner can smoke off a $2200 scooter by failing to keep it in two stroke oil what do you think all the Bozos yelling "Chinese crap!" are up to? Somehow my 8 year old Bashan is running just fine.
I let a shop fix it to illustrate the flaw in Brand Name ownership. A repair of those "Reliable" scooters cost an arm and a leg. If I had taken it to a "Real" Kymco dealer that $660 repair would have been closer to $1000.
Ungabunga just had to replace his PCX's clutch at a mere 10,000 miles. He did it himself at considerable savings over a dealer repair.
I'm not so naive to think a Chinese scooter is a Honda but I would take a $2000 Chinese 250 over a $3500 Honda 150 any day of the week. You need a license for both.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 23, 2016 8:49:45 GMT -5
I understand the whole concept of brand name being better than Chinese Leo, but let me tell you my sad tale of contradiction. In 2015 I bought a 2010 Kymco Like 50cc two stroke to flip. "It has an electrical Gremlin" the sweet young lady who owned it said. For $300 I bought a $2200 MSRP machine to flip. "How hard can working on a two stroke be," thought I. Then the fun began. After a lot of digging I discovered that the $75.00, plus shipping, starter motor was burned out. Then once I did get it started it ran badly and didn't make voltage. Another $100 with shipping for a stator. At that time my wife passed away and I just didn't have the heart to work on it so I took the scooter to a local small engine/lawn tractor/ATV/Snowmobile shop and said install the stator. They discovered that the scooter had about 60 psi compression with a burned piston and scorched barrel. I said, "Fix it". A 72cc big bore kit from Ebay was installed and the scooter now runs like a top. The bad news. $660 for the top end work done at low shop rates, $200 for a stator and starter motor, $300 original purchase price. Moral of the story for me. If a stupid owner can smoke off a $2200 scooter by failing to keep it in two stroke oil what do you think all the Bozos yelling "Chinese crap!" are up to? Somehow my 8 year old Bashan is running just fine. I let a shop fix it to illustrate the flaw in Brand Name ownership. A repair of those "Reliable" scooters cost an arm and a leg. If I had taken it to a "Real" Kymco dealer that $660 repair would have been closer to $1000. Ungabunga just had to replace his PCX's clutch at a mere 10,000 miles. He did it himself at considerable savings over a dealer repair. I'm not so naive to think a Chinese scooter is a Honda but I would take a $2000 Chinese 250 over a $3500 Honda 150 any day of the week. You need a license for both.
First, my most sincere sympathies in the loss of your Wife. Losing the one you love is heart-breaking. Time does heal, but life will be different from now on. Have a bone on the old chopper guy...
There surely ARE exceptions... You also did get a raw deal on the Kymco too. Being an old go-kart racer from the '60's I can attest to the speedy destruction lack of oil can bring to a 2-stroke. And, yes, if you'd have gone to a Kymco dealer it would have cost a mint to fix.
I'm an old Harley guy, having built and ridden many (probably too many...) big bikes over the last 50 years, and scooters are a whole new game for me. I have arthritis which makes it hard to climb onto big motorcycles anymore, not to mention I can't afford them on Social Security anyway... LOL! The flat-floor Chinese 150's seemed to be the best deal for me. I got and rode one for seven years, and it was a nightmare concerning a plethora of "Chinese bugs" but when I got them all worked out, it was trouble-free. And dirt-cheap. All-in-all, worth the wrenching for the money spent. I only "traded up" to the Kymco 250 because local traffic speeds have increased a LOT. And, I also need to get on the freeway sometimes. For safety, I needed a lot more speed to keep up. I did test-ride everything I could, and honestly did find the used name-brands to generally ride better than even new Chinese models. That's just me, and if I had gotten the Kymco 2-stroke you did, I would have a different outlook... for sure!
One of the great aspects of scooters, is that there are SO many choices, both new and used. And most all of them cost less than motorcycles and are easier to fix. Every rider will have his/her favorite and most will be different!
Now that you have the 2-stroke fixed, it will probably be a lot of fun!Ride safe!Leo in Texas |
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Post by ungabunga on Oct 23, 2016 15:52:55 GMT -5
I understand the whole concept of brand name being better than Chinese Leo, but let me tell you my sad tale of contradiction. In 2015 I bought a 2010 Kymco Like 50cc two stroke to flip. "It has an electrical Gremlin" the sweet young lady who owned it said. For $300 I bought a $2200 MSRP machine to flip. "How hard can working on a two stroke be," thought I. Then the fun began. After a lot of digging I discovered that the $75.00, plus shipping, starter motor was burned out. Then once I did get it started it ran badly and didn't make voltage. Another $100 with shipping for a stator. At that time my wife passed away and I just didn't have the heart to work on it so I took the scooter to a local small engine/lawn tractor/ATV/Snowmobile shop and said install the stator. They discovered that the scooter had about 60 psi compression with a burned piston and scorched barrel. I said, "Fix it". A 72cc big bore kit from Ebay was installed and the scooter now runs like a top. The bad news. $660 for the top end work done at low shop rates, $200 for a stator and starter motor, $300 original purchase price. Moral of the story for me. If a stupid owner can smoke off a $2200 scooter by failing to keep it in two stroke oil what do you think all the Bozos yelling "Chinese crap!" are up to? Somehow my 8 year old Bashan is running just fine. I let a shop fix it to illustrate the flaw in Brand Name ownership. A repair of those "Reliable" scooters cost an arm and a leg. If I had taken it to a "Real" Kymco dealer that $660 repair would have been closer to $1000. Ungabunga just had to replace his PCX's clutch at a mere 10,000 miles. He did it himself at considerable savings over a dealer repair. I'm not so naive to think a Chinese scooter is a Honda but I would take a $2000 Chinese 250 over a $3500 Honda 150 any day of the week. You need a license for both. I am sorry for your loss neighbor. I'm sure it has been a struggle for you. I've come very close to being in that situation myself, and I don't know where I would find the strength to make it through. As for your experience with the Kymco, it is horrible when a vehicle owner does not properly care for the vehicle, then passes on their problems to another. I'm sure some chinese resellers have taken steps to improve the quality of their products. It probably stems from so many resellers popping up out of the blue 8 - 10 years ago, then going bust because they were just looking to make a buck and not concerned with quality. Just the same, there is something to be said for peace of mind. Major brand names give that to some extent (there are exceptions). |
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Post by w650 on Oct 24, 2016 9:02:28 GMT -5
Two things. First, As of now I've handed the Kymco over to my stepson. I can't sell it now without taking a depressing hit. Since I have almost $1100 into it I would lose over three or four hundred dollars. In an age of used $600 Chinese 50cc scooters for sale on Craigslist it would be a loss.
Second. The problem with "Peace of mind" is how much are you willing to pay? Sorry Paul but paying $3500 for a Honda 150cc is off my charts. I can nail down a Bintelli Fury for half that. We have a different scale of value. I know you spent close to $3,000 OTD for the Kymco People so maybe a Honda doesn't looks so bad at that price.
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Post by ungabunga on Oct 24, 2016 12:08:53 GMT -5
The Kymco was 3100 OTD, and ran great as long as I owned it. I got 25000+ miles on that little beast. The Honda was just $100 more OTD, so really, I don't think that was so bad. I ride pretty hard, and have compared the fit and finish, quality of workmanship, and so on, with Chinese scoots and I've found both the Kymco and Honda to feel more solid and substantial. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.  |
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Post by w650 on Oct 24, 2016 14:54:32 GMT -5
I ride pretty hard, and have compared the fit and finish, quality of workmanship, and so on, with Chinese scoots and I've found both the Kymco and Honda to feel more solid and substantial.
I don't disagree on that. At the price they sold for a $3000+ machine should be better than a $1700 or $1200 one. What I do disagree with is that they aren't that much better than a Bintelli or Wolf scooter for what most people will do with them.
Not everyone rides to Massachusetts on a 150cc scooter. That's what I have motorcycles for. At that, the 2006 Rebel I bought for my Daughter only cost $1700, used with 9,500 miles on it.
But, like people who want a Vespa, people buy what they want and can afford.
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