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Post by steve on Jun 22, 2015 8:22:17 GMT -5
Hello, my fellow scooterers!
I have a customer who has a scooter that he wants me to install a big bore kit on. It is a Keeway Agora-50. I figured it was a 139QMB motor, but went over there this morning to double check. Turns out, it is a QJ137QMB motor. That means it has a 37mm bore on it. Does anybody know if the 139qmb big bore kits will work on it? It uses the variator and clutch that the 2stroke scooters use, but it is definitely a 4 stroke.
Very strange, and goes right along with the general luck that I have.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 19:38:33 GMT -5
I've heard you need to add a link to the timing chain. Aren't those heads about 1/2" longer? My timing chain won't accept a thicker gasket, much less 5 or 6 mm.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 19:30:27 GMT -5
New rings will cost around $10. The gaskets; even less. Just some elbow grease, and 20 bucks or less. Sounds like you did break a ring, the top one. The other one starts fluttering when it gets hot, because it is not designed to take the blast. Whatever size the engine is, just type in "rings and gaskets for ________ size GY6". If it is a 50cc, you most likely need 39mm rings, like my Jonway had. Some have 44mm rings, though. My 2010 did, but it wasn't a Jonway, though it's only a "Jonway" because of the plastic body.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 19:15:25 GMT -5
There is a shock underneath the seat, on the frame of the scooter. It's looks like the end of a rubber mallet, with 1/4 of it sticking into a tube. If your ride was that bad, I'd bet the rubber part came out of that tube, and got stuck on it. Happened to me, and before I figured out why every bump was rattling my fillings out, my frame broke.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 9:58:48 GMT -5
When I upjetted, I had the same problem. After much swearing, and trial and error, I finally solved the issue. At certain speeds( right around 40 mph), the fuel valve would close, due to lack of vacuum. The reason fuel wasn't coming out of the fuel valve you talked about is that they require vacuum from the engine to open them. That's why there is 3 hoses on them. One is a vacuum line from your manifold.
You can do 1 of 2 things: You can purchase a Mikuni vacuum fuel pump for about $40, or you can do as I did. I bought a manual shut off from the auto parts store. I just leave it on all of the time. One less thing to worry about. If you have a petcock that is screwed into your gas tank, that makes is a little more tricky. Those things are notoriously bad about malfunctioning. The diaphram fails on those, and gas goes through the vacuum line into the cylinder. It can lock your engine up.
You could unscrew it, and find a plumbing part from the hardware store that would work, I assume.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 9:44:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean when you say it has a vacuum line on the manifold? Are you talking about the intake manifold that is bolted to the engine? I'm not familiar with 150cc carbs, but don't they use a vacuum line from the intake manifold to raise the needle? It definitely sounds like your needle is not rising. When that happens, acceleration will be fine, but it will not get up to speed.
If there is a nipple coming off of the part of the carb that looks a little like those cheap petcocks, does that need to be connected to a vacuum line coming off of the manifold? I have a 50cc, and the needle is raised differently in those.
Take the top off, and raise the needle up and down manually a few times, and see if it catches.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 8:44:19 GMT -5
You can tell a big difference with the 3 phase stator and regulator. The lights don't dim at all when you are stopped.
LED lights just don't like voltage coming off of a rectifier. I guess it's because of the pulses, but a couple of the LED's on mine went out this week. If they are connected to the battery, it's no problem. Take the battery out of the equation, and hook them up to the DC output on a rectifier, even a full wave, and they are a little dimmer, and like to die. Oh well. I kept one LED light, and put it on a switch from the battery. I switched the other LED light to halogen. H3 halogen running lights did not like being connected to the AC voltage. It is not supposed to matter, but they would last about 2-3 hours hooked up to my factory lighting wires. My headlight lens started melting. Then, 2 bulbs literally exploded like a bomb within a couple of days, so I ripped the wiring out, and installed this 3 phase deal.
Does anybody know why LED lights don't like to be powered by a rectifier?
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 8:09:34 GMT -5
I can vouch for 02starrider. He ships pretty much instantly. If I order from him on Monday morning, it will be here on Wednesday. Like the sun coming up.
Scrappydog's cam will undoubtedly be a heavier, higher quality part, though. You get what you pay for. That statement is very applicable for scooter parts. These guys on ebay that sell so cheap; most of them have manufacturing plants in China. Use 1/3 as much metal on engine parts, and the cheapest metal one can find at that, and you can sell a lot cheaper. I know it sounds like I am a vendor, but I am not. I've never sold anything scooter related.
If you are on a budget, and need something to get your scoot going, you gotta do what you gotta do. If you have a couple of bucks laying around, you might as well get the good stuff from Taiwan.
Scrappydog's, Scooters-to-go, and NYC all have the higher end stuff, and all ship very quickly. I get the same 2 day turnaround from them. Order Monday morning, it's here on Wednesday.
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Post by steve on May 31, 2015 0:02:07 GMT -5
I just installed an 11 pole, GEH. Yours is absolutely the AC version. Here is what I did: First, I cut off the connector that has the 3 hot wires, and the ground. The power output wires will either all 3 be yellow, or, as mine was, a yellow, a white, and a pink. I kept the stock R/R as is, to charge the battery. I installed a 7 wire R/R right across from it. I just spliced 2 of the lead wires, where they go to both reg's. The 3rd wire obviously goes to the 3rd lead on the 7 wire reg. The other 2 wires go to both regulators. This is perfectly fine, because you are not going to put any "strain" on the stator. They produce what they produce. You either use it all, or you don't. What you don't use get's shunted to your frame, which almost certainly has to turn into heat, the way I understand it. Most of the 7 wire reg's are really 6 wire. They will all have 3 hot inputs, plus a ground. Get one with a red and white wire coming out of it. There are some that have a red and a black wire. I am pretty sure the black wire is a "monitor wire". I like having the red and white wire, because both of those are DC output wires. I used the red one to run 1 50 watt LED headlight, and one 13 watt LED headlight. I used the white wire to run an LED taillight, plus another 55 watt headlight that I only use on really dark roads. I know, I know, that's a LOT of light, but I have some Tim Allen in me. Having the 3 phase regulator run your lights is great, because it is "full wave", which doesn't dim hardly at all at low RPM. If you run it as I have, you don't have to have a switch to your lights, and worry about switching them off when you park. They cut on when you fire her up, and they cut off when you cut her off. If you want to keep your high/low beam switch on your handle bar, you can use the white for low beam, and the red for high beam, or vise versa. I cut the connector off of the 7 wire regulator.(get one that has actual wires coming off of it, as that makes it MUCH easier to tell what goes where). Get a couple of packs of the weather resistant bullet connectors, and you can crimp those on wherever you need a connection. If you need any help with this stuff, pm me, and I'll give you my phone #, and you can call me. I just totally rewired my scoot, and am still working on it a little. You have been very helpful to me, and I will be happy to help you out with this. Another thing, an 8 pole flywheel will work fine with the 11 pole stator. I know this for an absolute fact. You can find an 8 pole flywheel for pretty cheap. Basically, if the stator will fit inside the flywheel, it will likely work. While I won't argue with your results on the two R/R's because it's apparent it's working it's actually just overkill. The 7-pin R/R will do the job with no issues and handle the 140W that most 11 pole stators produce. If you disconnect the second R/R and wire it correctly you'll see no performance difference. JR Yeah, I kept the old one just to save the time of running a few extra wires. I needed DC voltage for my headlights, and didn't want to have to run them off of the battery. I would have to put them on a switch, and I would forget to turn them off, and kill my battery in the first week. If I got rid of the old regulator, I would have to use the DC lines for other stuff. I used the 7 wire regulator just to convert the lighting to DC. Hope that makes sense. |
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Post by steve on May 29, 2015 16:58:28 GMT -5
Oh, I almost forgot. Be gentle putting the rings on the cylinder. Don't even think about picking up those needle nose pliers!
They break easy. Trust me. As a matter of fact, order an extra set of appropriate sized rings, just in case. And some extra circlips. They are too cheap to have that worry. One of those clips could snap out of your pliers, and fly somewhere, and your screwed.
Use needle nose pliers when putting the circlips in that hold the pin in the piston, though. That is fine.
Use a small flathead screwdriver to assist you in pushing the rings in, when fitting the piston into the cylinder. Take your time, say a few cuss words, and you will get it in there. Put some 2-stroke oil on the cylinder.
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Post by steve on May 29, 2015 16:28:32 GMT -5
Here is your opportunity to learn from my mistakes. First of all, you will see some kits on ebay, with the valve head, rocker arm assembly, camshaft, roller weights, cylinder and piston for $70-$  . This looks like an amazing deal, almost too good to be true. It is too good to be true. You can't get good quality parts for that price. I got one of those, and it ran great, for like 30 miles. I have ended up replacing every single part that came in that kit, except the main carberator jet. I'm sure the people that sell stuff that cheap are good people, they probably don't even know what they are selling. You should expect to pay $100+ for the cylinder, piston, and big valve head. Buy from John here at NCY, or Scrappydog, or Scooters to go, or another one of the banner ads here. I have held the $20 cylinder in one hand, and the good quality one in another, and the difference is huge. The cheaper ones are literally like a coke can compared to the good stuff. The cheap one I bought started leaking compression from everywhere after about 2 days. The valves rattled from the get -go, and the springs were probably going to snap shortly. Pay the money, and do it once. Trust me on this. Also, take your time. Use colored tape to mark which wires go where. Unbolt the 2 bolts that hold the motor on the frame, and the 3rd one on the shock, keep the back tire and kick stand on the motor, and roll it away from the bike. I suspended the bike from my garage door frame, and rolled the engine out from under it, with the back tire still attached. Kept it up on the kick stand, and had all the room in the world I needed to work on it. Just remember to unhook all the ground wires, the rear brake cable, the throttle cable, spark plug wires, and all that. Don't rush, and end up snapping something that you will have trouble putting back together. Just taking the seat off did not give me enough room. The frame was all in the way just trying to take the valve cover off. No way I could have changed the cylinder on my scoot, with how the frame is. Getting the rings into the cylinder requires gentle precision! Don't try to do it without having access to every inch of them! Trust me on this. Remember the spacers/dowels! After I took it apart the 3rd time, replacing cheap parts, I forgot the spacers that slide over the studs, and have lost compression again. Those are there for a reason! Buy a new starter to install with your BBK. You are going to need a BRAND NEW one to be able to turn it over at first. The compression is very high, especially right after you put it together! The starters suck oil into the coil fast. The O-rings on those things suck. You will not notice how much torque your starter has lost until you try to turn over a brand new BBK with it. Again, trust me on this. Buy 5-10 main jets. You want the largest jet to be 10# larger than the largest you think you will possibly go. Like for a 50cc, if you are installing the 50mm cylinder, get # ,  , 100, 105. Start with the , and keep increasing them until it is too rich. Then,take the insert out of the intake nozzle on your airbox, and it will most likely work fine. If you want me to explain my way of jetting a carb, without having to pull the plug 50 times, I will share. You want your new motor to run rich. If you run that thing lean, like they run them as 50cc motors coming out of the factory, you will lock it up, or burn a hole in the piston very quickly. Running them as rich as you can, without losing performance, is the way to go. Rich = cooler temps. Lean = hotter temps. I put a 50mm BBK on mine, and am running a #100, with the little 4 hole insert removed out of the intake nozzle of my factory airbox, and it performs pretty much the same as running a # , with the insert in, which means it runs great. I also drilled a hole in my muffler, so that probably plays into it. Finally, buy the upgrade carb. For mine, I bought the true 20mm Keihin(or however you spell it). It is worth it. One, or all of the guys I listed will have that. Finally, every time I said "trust me" in this novel of a post, it means I have made the mistake, and paid for it. Take your time. If you get stuck, ask one of these guys on here, and wait for a couple of responses. Save yourself the headaches. Buy quality parts. Spend the money. The merchants I mentioned are not selling the stuff at that price to rip us off. That is how much good parts cost. I have come to terms with that. Be thorough. Buy a new Gates kevlar, or the equivalent material belt to install with the BBK, also. Any questions? Feel free to ask. I am sure I have screwed up what you are asking about, and can tell you what NOT to do. One of the smart people on here can then tell you what to do. Good luck! |
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Post by steve on May 29, 2015 15:24:18 GMT -5
I have heard about that. CVT's are a really clever, really simple concept. I would imagine you would need a big belt, and a way to dissipate some serious heat if you were to use one on a car. I'm sure it would be simple enough to solve. , you could run an air conditioning system in the CVT case, if you had to.
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Post by steve on May 29, 2015 10:33:49 GMT -5
You could put male and female blade connectors on the wires, and connect the white wire from the switch to the blue wire going to the bulb, and the opposite with the other 2. This should correct it. Then, just switch them back when you get a bulb that works.
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Post by steve on May 29, 2015 10:25:13 GMT -5
Are they the same size as the 50cc ones?
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Post by steve on May 29, 2015 9:48:38 GMT -5
As others have posted, the red and black wire is the power wire for the cdi, the blue one is from the pickup, and is the timing wire for the cdi.
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. This looks like an amazing deal, almost too good to be true. It is too good to be true. You can't get good quality parts for that price. I got one of those, and it ran great, for like 30 miles. I have ended up replacing every single part that came in that kit, except the main carberator jet. I'm sure the people that sell stuff that cheap are good people, they probably don't even know what they are selling.
, 100, 105. Start with the