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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 16, 2016 1:50:31 GMT -5
Well boyz n' gurlz...
Today, it hit 70 degrees and sunshine, so I dug the old Kymco out from under her tarps, coaxed the feral cats off their home on her floor, chased the snakes out of the engine bay and took a ride just to remind me once again, how much fun two wheels are...  I've been following Yellowscoot's thread on his new 250 and pondering over just WHY we might choose a 250/300 cc ride in lieu of a 400, 600, 750 cc, etc. (OTHER than just the PRICE)... Yeah, they ARE a lot cheaper than big maxis, but offer a LOT of REAL INCENTIVES to make them a FIRST-CHOICE.
I spent most of my younger years riding the biggest bikes I could find, and loved every minute. Now, I'm going to turn 70 next season, and have plenty of arthritis, but far less stamina, balance and quick reflexes. So I "rediscovered" SCOOTERS! I first got a Chinese 150 which I just loved (aside from doing more wrenching than riding... LOL!) Seven years down the road, I really needed enough speed and torque to handle hills, wind and 70 mph traffic... (well, 65 anyway)...
So, tight-budget in hand, I test rode every clean used 250 cc and up scooter I could find. First one I looked at was a Kymco 500 cc. FABULOUS scooter with lots of speed and comfort, but, WAY too long, too heavy and cumbersome for me. Next a Vespa which was impeccable, but for me, a little small and light. Next, a Burgman 400 which was very nice, but again, too long for me and too heavy. Several Hondas, Suzukis and Yamahas later... I finally opted for my obsolete, well-used, rodent-nosed Kymco Grandvista which I lovingly call "Minnie Mouse" which is only slightly longer than my old 150, and 100 pounds heavier. She's just right.
I'm now totally sold on the twist-n'-go CVT trannies and would not care to go back to "clutch-n' gears" shifting again. With total throttle control in turns, and the luxury of firmly planting BOTH FEET down at a stop, they are "the cat's pajamas"... The 150's have that of course, but to have smooth, seamless acceleration from stopped, to highway speed is just plain "addictive".
The 250/300 class scooter has true "scooter-handling" yet at higher speeds, feels VERY much like a full-sized motorcycle. And while they're certainly not crotch-rockets, these high-torque singles give the rider that satisfying push in the seat of his/her pants when starting from dead stop, as well as when acceleration is needed while riding. The scoot feels like "a real bike" and handles like a toy.
What a combination!
Yelloscoot is young, but still discovering the same attributes of the 250 that I've found in my old age.
Of course, the smallish 250 motors still offer the opportunity to tweak the ride for a few more mph or mpg with fine-tuning the CVT with roller/slider experimentation, and such shenanigans (the ENGINES don't really need much if any improvement) so we still have the fun of "personalizing" a simple 50 or 150, but always with the stout frames, solid handling and road-power of 15-20hp already built in, even with an old single-cam, 2-valve, carbureted model.
It's no wonder this versatile, affordable class is so popular. Like in the three bears' story, the 250/300 scooter is not too small, not too big... but JUST RIGHT! They're a wonderful mix of almost everything we love about the plethora of various 2-wheel rides, all in one convenient, easy-to-maintan package!
Any other mid-size scooter jockeys out there who feel the same? 
Leo (ridin' the old mouse like she's a quarter-hoss in this rare January sunshine) in Texas
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 16, 2016 2:51:27 GMT -5
i never owned a manual clutch type of bike, and i seriously doubt if i will.
i can't think of many, but i'm sure there are a few advantages of an automatic tranny.
the most immediate one is in regards to uphill rides at very slow speeds,
another is having both brakes at your fingertips.
yet another is the uncomplicated ride of an automatic tranny.
another advantage is the really simple design, very easy to work on.
i still admire the hogs though.
i will never forget the string of what must have been a thousand of them passing through town.
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Post by SylvreKat on Jan 16, 2016 7:54:11 GMT -5
I haven't driven anything else (excluding test-drives) but my true-198cc. But I agree with Leo, it seems ideal for my needs. Light enough I can pick him up, but heavy enough for a good sense of stability. Agile enough for traffic on city roads, supposedly powerful enough for highway driving or even short stretches of interstate (if you're so brave).
When my Harley friend drove Peej, before I was licensed, he was surprised and very impressed with the handling. Who knows, I might turn him into a scoot-driver someday, ha!
>'Kat
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Post by rockynv on Jan 16, 2016 13:58:01 GMT -5
Depends on the Maxi Scoot. I rode a BV500 and after you got over the initial "this is heavier" moment it was a similar ride to my Sport City 250 however the Burgman and especially the Silverwing were just not there for me. Motorcycle reviewers keep bashing the Piaggio 300+ cc bikes for being too scooterish however that to me is the best thing about them in that they found a way to make a 350 to 500cc scooter that still has that twist and go ease and balance to it.
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Post by crawford on Jan 16, 2016 14:25:17 GMT -5
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Post by spandi on Jan 16, 2016 15:58:44 GMT -5
I never got the idea of needing 600cc's on a scooter. I have no problems rolling down the freeway on my 250. If you feel the need for a larger bike then just buy a motorcycle.
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Post by scoot08 on Jan 16, 2016 18:14:25 GMT -5
I agree with spandi if your going over 250 cc just buy a motorcycle. you get the larger wheel diameter for stability and a real transmission.if you like scooters ride a scooter.if not buy a motorcycle.later
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 16, 2016 20:53:03 GMT -5
Good points one and all!I've gotta agree with Rockynv that being too "scooterish" is the BEST feature of the big Piaggios... That criticism alone makes me want one... LOL! I do realize the Italian 250/300 class scooters ARE the Ferraris of scooterdom, offering that elusive  + mph top end with an honest 80+ mph cruise. Very SWEET!Personally, I'm just in love with the small-wheel look of the 10, 11 and 12-inch rims on the smaller 250's. Even the 14" rims on Kymco's twin-cam, 4-valve fuel-injected 300 which replaced my old GrandVista just look a little too large for my eye. Just me... I did get old Minnie Mouse up to an indicated 99 mph (actual  -96 mph) on a long downhill, downwind stretch, and her little 12-inchers still rode and handled just fine... So while tall wheels ARE arguably better at speed, I still like the toy-like charm of the little guys... Again, just old-school me. But then, I also like Cushman Eagles, fishtail pipes and illuminated hood-ornaments... LOL!
The whole "jist" of the thing is that the somewhat narrow class of 250/300 scooters fill SO many niches. Whether you crave the nimble ability of the 50/150 scoots to "wild-mouse" tight traffic and walk 'em behind the bushes to park, OR want the solid feel of stiff frames, big brakes, some extra horsepower and heavy-duty construction for "wild-mousing" 50 mph traffic, OR want the feel of a genuine, ROAD-CAPABLE motorcycle at 65 mph... The 250's probably offer enough of "whatever" you're looking for to make you happy. Most riders can move up from a 50-150 to the 250 and be comfortable, yet the Harley or Goldwing rider can move down to the 250 and not be disappointed. Like me... LOL!I feel comfortable recommending the 250/300 class scooters to virtually ANYBODY wanting a good daily ride... Unless you have your heart set on a mini-bike, OR going 200 mph, you're probably going to be pretty happy on a 40 hp fuel-injected 300... or even a carbureted old 15 hp Chinese 250."One size fits all" is not usually attainable, but the 250/300 scooters come mighty close!
Whatever you choose to ride, RIDE SAFE!
Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 16, 2016 21:15:41 GMT -5
I haven't driven anything else (excluding test-drives) but my true-198cc. But I agree with Leo, it seems ideal for my needs. Light enough I can pick him up, but heavy enough for a good sense of stability. Agile enough for traffic on city roads, supposedly powerful enough for highway driving or even short stretches of interstate (if you're so brave). When my Harley friend drove Peej, before I was licensed, he was surprised and very impressed with the handling. Who knows, I might turn him into a scoot-driver someday, ha! >'Kat
Kat,
You have a very capable scoot there!
A middle-aged lady at my local Wally World rides an old Kymco "People 150" with 35K miles on the clock. It's a cosmetic twin to yours, but with a 163 cc motor of about 12 hp. It's been her only transportation for six years, summer, winter, rain (snow) or shine...
She just got back from a 2-week vacation (tent, bedroll, snacks and shotgun bungee-corded on the passenger seat) riding it from Dallas, Texas to Miami, Florida and back. Not one problem! She's pretty small and light, and with her aboard, the old Kymco will hit 68-70 mph wide-open, on the flat with no headwind, so she took 2-lane highways unless conditions were "ideal" for the little 150 to brave the limited-access freeways.
Not often you see a 150 class ride with the paint worn through on the forward-facing plastics, and the finish worn off the rims and CVT case! One look at that scoot, and you KNOW it gets RIDDEN a LOT!  These scoots can really get you around!
Ride safe,
Leo
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Post by phatboy on Jan 23, 2016 5:44:41 GMT -5
I wanted a scooter that was unmistakably a scooter, that looked like a scooter, rode like a scooter, but with more power. Quite simple really.
I think some maxis push the boundaries of what a lot of people think a scooter is, only really sticking to the bare technical definition (step-through chassis, engine under seat, gas tank at feet or behind seat) while more closely resembling motorcycles in most every other way.
If I wanted something like that I'd get a motorcycle and I don't mind shifting gears. But then again automatic does not define a scooter, there are a few automatic motorcycles and countless manual transmission scooters, like old Vespas and some newer clones of them.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 25, 2016 13:25:44 GMT -5
I wanted a scooter that was unmistakably a scooter, that looked like a scooter, rode like a scooter, but with more power. Quite simple really. I think some maxis push the boundaries of what a lot of people think a scooter is, only really sticking to the bare technical definition (step-through chassis, engine under seat, gas tank at feet or behind seat) while more closely resembling motorcycles in most every other way. If I wanted something like that I'd get a motorcycle and I don't mind shifting gears. But then again automatic does not define a scooter, there are a few automatic motorcycles and countless manual transmission scooters, like old Vespas and some newer clones of them.
I couldn't agree more... Have a bone!
When I made the permanent change from motorcycles to scooters, I too wanted my ride to be unmistakably a scooter.
Back in my day, scooters were 50 mph rides period. Today's maxi-scooters can reach extreme speeds, but indeed, do blur the line, losing their scooter identity and nimble handling. Somewhere in the middle, there are still SCOOTERS that are SCOOTERS which can also run 70 mph, small wheels and all.
These have a BIG, across the board appeal.
I found the 150's were simply not fast enough to run with local traffic, and after six years on one, I moved up to the old Kymco 250 I ride today. It's virtually the same size and similar in appearance to the typical Chinese 150, but is rock-solid, reliable as the family car, and can run 70 mph.
That's a combination that's hard to beat!
Ride safe...
Leo in Texas
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Jan 25, 2016 15:45:21 GMT -5
i think there is merit in all 3.
the little 50cc, small, quiet, efficient.
250cc, sacrifices some agility but makes up for it by the ability to run with 60MPH traffic.
the hogs, provides a more comfortable ride but adds the "expense" of shifting gears.
i love my CVT 250 but i also miss my 50cc, i could easily make a U turn in a parking space with it.
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Post by rockynv on Jan 26, 2016 1:20:59 GMT -5
Leo - It took me a year on the 150 to realize that it was not cutting it on the roads here in Tampa Bay especially with all the roads out being State Highways, Highway Causeways or Interstate Bridges just about any way you chose to ride. I did get my Lance 150 running optimally and it would do an honest 65 mph on flat roads as long as there was not a headwind or hill however that still eliminated it from heading out East on the Causeway or South on the Sunshine Skyway Bridge. Maintenance was more constant on the 150 running it on 45+ mph roads all the time too.
On the 250 it takes a while getting used to feathering the rear brake to make friction zone U-Turns but you learn and it becomes second nature however you need a bike that is reliable enough to instill confidence that its not going to stall while your half way through with the maneuver.
You can't do this ride over the Skyway on a 150 since you'd probably be down to 25 mph before you crested the top of the 300' high bridge where traffic generally flows at 65 to 70 mph.
I enjoy this ride back from Sarasota after sunset and have taken it many times on the Sport City 250. Sometimes I pass a few of these groups while I am doing it even despite my 250 lbs and being loaded with parcels from an outing at the outlet mall. Others on 250cc and sometimes even 600cc motorcycles have not been able to keep up with Aprilia climbing the Skyway. Torque, HP and Weight all come into play on the Skyway along with Aerodynamics. At 326 lbs the Sport City is a light 250 which gives it an edge over the 400+ lb 250cc and 500+ lb 600cc bikes. Saddle bags would also limit its ability to cut through the air as efficiently as it does.
Someday when its nice maybe I'll take a dash cam video of a scooter ride on the Skyway. The mike is not shielded well so it tends to make for a noisy recording and the mount is not that great. Many don't understand why I like this bike so much until they've ridden it themselves or at least ridden along with me and then its quite an eye opener.
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Post by sevenwheels on Feb 13, 2016 6:06:18 GMT -5
When the lower back said "You won't hold up a GoldWing anymore." There were already 2 maxiscoots in the garage. My Majesty and Sandi's Morphous. Majesty went in the trade in package for Pyder and down to one Maxi we were. Come Sandi's summer vacation, I rode her Morphous some just to keep my hand in, so to speak, and was reminded of how much fun that 250 is. No trouble holding it up and so off to Morgantown WV we go for purchase of another Morphous. This all happened over a period of 2011-2013 and we have been a seven wheeled garage ever since. The 250 to 300 scoots are the closest I have found to the two wheeled experience I missed without the weight penalty and great fuel and maintenance economy.My Morphous is my daily commuter but alas, Sandi does not ride anymore save for 2 up on Pyder, but then again, that's what it's for. Gosh what a rambling discourse..did I contribute an answer to the question???
David
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 17, 2016 21:28:40 GMT -5
When the lower back said "You won't hold up a GoldWing anymore." There were already 2 maxiscoots in the garage. My Majesty and Sandi's Morphous. Majesty went in the trade in package for Pyder and down to one Maxi we were. Come Sandi's summer vacation, I rode her Morphous some just to keep my hand in, so to speak, and was reminded of how much fun that 250 is. No trouble holding it up and so off to Morgantown WV we go for purchase of another Morphous. This all happened over a period of 2011-2013 and we have been a seven wheeled garage ever since. The 250 to 300 scoots are the closest I have found to the two wheeled experience I missed without the weight penalty and great fuel and maintenance economy.My Morphous is my daily commuter but alas, Sandi does not ride anymore save for 2 up on Pyder, but then again, that's what it's for. Gosh what a rambling discourse..did I contribute an answer to the question??? David
David,
Welcome to the site! Have a bone on the Old Chopper Guy...
You said it just fine! I think we are in total agreement. The only difference is that arthritis has me to the point that it's hard for me to even get a foot over the "semi-hump" on the maxi-scoots. So... Rides like my old Kymco 250 Grandvista, the newer flat-floor "People 300 cc" and some Italian scoots with flat-floors are the only ones I can ride with comfort.
After more than a half-century of big bikes (usually Harleys, both baggers and choppers) I'm VERY glad there are SCOOTERS available which CAN provide the "motorcycle experience" yet be convenient for us seniors.
Enjoy the ride, and ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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+ mph top end with an honest 80+ mph cruise. Very SWEET!
-96 mph) on a long downhill, downwind stretch, and her little 12-inchers still rode and handled just fine... So while tall wheels ARE arguably better at speed, I still like the toy-like charm of the little guys... Again, just old-school me. But then, I also like Cushman Eagles, fishtail pipes and illuminated hood-ornaments... LOL!
