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Post by rockynv on Sept 18, 2015 0:28:42 GMT -5
Designers seem to be going the other direction. A friend has a Yamaha that requires that the exhaust header be removed before you can change the oil filter. When he was quoted $250 for an oil change he was about to give them a piece of his mind however the service adviser beat him to it and showed him the location of the oil filter and how his headers would have to be removed to get at it requiring the replacement of the header gaskets and such in addition to the cost of the oil. Of course the running boards, crash bars and side case mounts all had to come off before you could get the headers off.
Again I'd rather be out riding than dealing with all that.
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Post by rock73 on Sept 18, 2015 21:22:17 GMT -5
The Piaggio bike are scheduled for oil changes every 6,250 miles if you use the recommended 4T Synthetic MC Oil or up to twice a year the way I ride while my Lance 150 had its oil change schedule listed as every 500 miles. I went from 24 oil changes per year to only 2 and the Piaggio engine in my Aprilia takes about the same amount of oil as the Lance did. With the Japanese and Italian designs you get tighter tolerances and a full flow oil filter instead of just a screen which extends the time between required oil changes. The oil pumps in the Chinese bikes do not have enough capacity to support a full flow filter so they only have a screen for the most part. Discussions about putting synthetic long life oil in a bike without a true filter are really moot since all the dirt and carbon will be recycled through the engine by a high detergent long life oil keeping all that corruption in suspension potentially doing more harm than good. Anyways if you are a daily commuter who puts on 500 to 1,000 miles a month a Chinese bike requiring 1 or 2 oil changes per month may not be the best fit for your needs. You have to consider the difference between low cost and value for each individuals circumstances. Some who ride recreationaly or seasonally and may only put on 500 to 1,500 miles a year would be a good fit with most Chinese scooters however the 6,000/12,000 mile per year rider really needs something better suited to that usage. This thread has been well discussed =), so 24 oil changes per year just 2 changes a year, that definitely pays off !!, but here in Venezuela today by government policies (Socialist.....  ) is quite difficult to buy good Japanese or Italian bike, those kinds of bikes are only for police and the armed forces, I mean KLR Kawasaki and Suzuki Vstrom..., we have several constrains, so we do not have no choice but to ride bikes Chinese  Additionally here in the Caribbean temperatures they are usually high 25 C to 33 Celsius degrees, in the months of November to January, down a bit to 16 degrees Celsius Maximus, so the recommendation here use 20W50 oil for Chinese motorcycles. Bye! |
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Post by bandito2 on Sept 18, 2015 21:52:10 GMT -5
Designers seem to be going the other direction. A friend has a Yamaha that requires that the exhaust header be removed before you can change the oil filter. When he was quoted $250 for an oil change he was about to give them a piece of his mind however the service adviser beat him to it and showed him the location of the oil filter and how his headers would have to be removed to get at it requiring the replacement of the header gaskets and such in addition to the cost of the oil. Of course the running boards, crash bars and side case mounts all had to come off before you could get the headers off. Again I'd rather be out riding than dealing with all that. And that is partly why some folks strip off as much of the plastic as they can get away with and go for the naked bike look. Less hassle to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. (besides, they are completely sick of having the stupid mounting tabs break every time they remove panels.) Folks might want to do a fairly thorough research on ANY bike they are considering. Lurking or asking questions on sites where the bike is discussed about known issues, peeves as well as the praises, reviews etc might be a good idea. I'd be asking how often and how difficult is the general maintenance. Like parts availability and cost, oil and oil filter changes, tire changes, general engine access for inspection, spark plug changes, valve inspection and adjustment, drive line inspection maintenance, body panel R&R and the cost for such things if taken to a shop. BTW, I do almost all the work on my scooters, but I would want to know just in case there ever came a time when I would not be able to do it myself. If I were to find out that an oil change was going to cost a lot and the extensive procedures required just to do an oil change, I wouldn't even consider getting that bike in the first place. And that is why I will not ever consider the Suzuki Burgman because of the expense, time and depth of disassembly required for a drive belt change. IMO, it is the equivalent of having to split the cases just to get to a bolt that holds the starter that needs to be replaced. Not every day that you'd need to change the starter... But if you ever did...... Dayam! yer screwed. Come to think of it now, I can see the appeal of the Chinese scoot... because they are so basic/simple to fix and they don't cost an arm and a leg, your first born and 2 weeks worth of paycheck just to get back on the road. (well, my Honda's are not like that either, but you get my drift) Keeping on topic, I'm glad my scooter is cheap and easy to do oil changes with 10-40 Mobil1 synthetic oil. |
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Post by shantyhag on Sept 20, 2015 11:55:56 GMT -5
So, here's a related question. On our project bike we're ordering an NCY Oil Cooler from Scooterworks. The kit seems to include something that looks like a filter (at least looks like a fuel filter). I know that some of you have done this mod... is that what it is? If not, and this is really the more general question, would it be possible/beneficial to add an in-line oil filter to the mix? I'm looking at this thread that's asking much the same thing about motorcycles: Inline Oil Filter LinkIt would seem feasible and would also seem like it would add dramatic life to the oil and intervals between changes. Thoughts? (BTW, if this is something that has been covered ad nauseum in another thread or on the old-site then please point me the right way... I don't want to waste anyone's time reposting, I just think it's an interesting idea). |
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Post by rockynv on Sept 21, 2015 11:50:26 GMT -5
Now if somone would come out with an oil pump that would not choke with an oil filter in the line you'd have a match.
Might work out ok with a 0W40 with the cooler and a filter however a 20W50 would probably be too thick when cold to flow through a filter considering the GY6 oil pump design unless there was a very well thought out bypass designed in the system.
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Post by bandito2 on Sept 21, 2015 17:04:28 GMT -5
What about a separate pump that would only come on at a certain oil temperature (say 80-100°f above ambient) and have a built in over-pressure bypass? ... My thinking is for it to be an independently operating auxiliary pump with the original engine oil pump fully functional as is.
Is there even such a thing?
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Post by bandito2 on Sept 21, 2015 17:45:50 GMT -5
What about a separate pump that would only come on at a certain oil temperature (say 80-100°f above ambient) and have a built in over-pressure bypass? ... My thinking is for it to be an independently operating auxiliary pump with the original engine oil pump fully functional as is. Is there even such a thing? Oh, and the auxiliary would be the only system pushing oil through a full flow filter. I wonder if running a water pump and an oil pump electrically and deleting the engine driven pumps would result in enough lowered drag on the engine to be worthwhile. I'm thinking that it is done the way it is now as a matter of convenience and reliability... perhaps electric pumps are generally considered not as reliable... hmmm? But then there are the ubiquitous electric fuel pumps... maybe the viscosity & volume needed to be moved would be an issue along with the extra demand on the electrical system. |
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Post by rockynv on Sept 23, 2015 7:19:26 GMT -5
Fuel pumps are usually designed to be cooled by the fuel to keep them from burning out so they may not do well with hot oil with the potential to hit the 300 degree mark.
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Post by mikestib1 on Nov 19, 2015 12:16:51 GMT -5
Use a full synthetic 10w40. You can change it less often and it will provide the best protection. You don't need a motorcycle oil as you have a CVT transmission. A full synthetic offers more protection from the minute you start the engine up to maximum rpm. It should be good for at least 2000 km.
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Post by mikestib1 on Nov 19, 2015 12:23:07 GMT -5
Why would anyone use oil recommended for a low rpm Diesel engine in a high rpm scooter when no manufacturer recommends it? Think about it
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Post by ottoman on Nov 24, 2015 22:17:34 GMT -5
My scoot has this engine, and my user manual says 15W40-4T. Remember this engine has splash lube for the big end, which is prob adequate, but crude. The electric choke should come off after abt 3min, or as the temp gauge passes the first mark. It's not uncommon for the temp sensors to be wrong, even from new. The 1996-1998 YP250 manual, avail online or CD is sufficient to cover this motor. Are you often riding much above sea level (<300M)? Your bike may need rejetting if you are. use good fuel, this engine requires  octane, I don't know if its ethanol approved. Mine has done 1700km, oil changes every 3000km will be ok after first change at 1000km. Mine was made Dec 2009, and I bought it new in May this year. It really needs a kickstarter for emergencies, but for the price, it's ok. |
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Post by hillbillybob on Nov 26, 2015 7:05:19 GMT -5
Why would anyone use oil recommended for a low rpm Diesel engine in a high rpm scooter when no manufacturer recommends it? Think about it Oh, but you are wrong.....The manual that came with my scoot recommends 15w40.....there are many other brands that do also. Then, there's my 2011 Camaro... tach redline is 7,000 rpm....and the crankcase is full of diesel oil, but it is a 5w40. Not what is recommended, but I didn't want my timing chains worn in two at 35000 miles....as some have. Run what you want, whatever brand and weight makes you feel good, change it when you feel it is time...it's your scoot....your money....your choice.........and none of my business |
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Post by rockynv on Dec 2, 2015 0:24:14 GMT -5
Why would anyone use oil recommended for a low rpm Diesel engine in a high rpm scooter when no manufacturer recommends it? Think about it Oh, but you are wrong.....The manual that came with my scoot recommends 15w40.....there are many other brands that do also. Then, there's my 2011 Camaro... tach redline is 7,000 rpm....and the crankcase is full of diesel oil, but it is a 5w40. Not what is recommended, but I didn't want my timing chains worn in two at 35000 miles....as some have. Run what you want, whatever brand and weight makes you feel good, change it when you feel it is time...it's your scoot....your money....your choice.........and none of my business 15W40 4-T is a motorcycle oil that is commonly recommended for scooters due to its anti-coking properties, flow characteristics at high rpms and performance under low pressure with some manuals taking it for granted that you will be using a 4T oil in the weight that they are listing. Remember the oil pump in a Chinese Scooter is rather anemic compared to those in a gasoline engine and even more weak compared to the powerhouse oil pumps in a diesel. Automotive oils are designed for use in systems running about 20 to 50 psi while Diesels can run up to  psi however a Chinese scooter may not register over a few psi. There are plenty of decent and low cost 4T motorcycle oils out there available for all our scooters and there is no real good reason to substitute Automotive grades unless the owners manual specifically states use Rotella or Mobile One Automotive grade oil (Mobile One does make a 4T oil for motorcycle engines www.amazon.com/Mobil-98JA11-10W-40-Racing-Motorcycle/dp/B004U8JH84). I use Rotella Full Synthetic in my Diesel and the same weight Full Synthetic 4T Motorcycle Oil in my scooter. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 28, 2016 10:10:47 GMT -5
Wrong thread
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octane, I don't know if its ethanol approved. Mine has done 1700km, oil changes every 3000km will be ok after first change at 1000km. Mine was made Dec 2009, and I bought it new in May this year. It really needs a kickstarter for emergencies, but for the price, it's ok.
psi however a Chinese scooter may not register over a few psi.