New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 16 
Likes: 1
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by rock73 on Sept 8, 2015 12:13:16 GMT -5
Hello greetings from Caracas Venezuela , I’ve some doubts about the correct oil to use in my Chinese Scooter 250 ( Engine type Yamaha YP250 1P69MM- made by Jinlang, liquid cooled), so the scooter manual says that the oil have to be 4T SAE 20W50 API – SH, okey I’ve had doing oil changes with Mineral oil ( dyno ) 20w50, from break in at 162 km( 100 mi ), 428km( 265 mi ), 533km ( 331 mi ), 1066Km ( 662 mi ), 1766km ( 1097 mi ), 2828km ( 1757 mi ), 4050km ( 2516 mi ), 4998km ( 3105 mi ), so I try to change every 1000km aprox., in this moment counter 5495km ( 3414 mi ), so I think 20W50 oil is a little thick for my new bike and vibration level is a lot, although I’ve made some adjustments tightening screws and nuts, now I’m considering to change to blend synthetic oil 10w-40 4T ( Valvoline, Castrol, Shell, etc.. ), the temperature in my city ( Caracas ) is always warm ( 25 - 33 Celsius ), Is a safe move to change viscosity and oil type in these Chinese scooter ? What do you think about this ? Thank you for opinions  |
|
|
|
Post by beenriding on Sept 8, 2015 13:06:18 GMT -5
I would stay with the manufacturers recommendation. Especially in warmer climate. Maybe the shaking is from something else? Oh yea, mines got many many miles on it and it shakes pretty good. Single cylinder motors just have vibration.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Sept 8, 2015 15:57:57 GMT -5
When do the vibrations occur most?
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by rock73 on Sept 8, 2015 20:40:58 GMT -5
When do the vibrations occur most? Hello, the vibrations begin hard at first when I start the engine, after 7 minutes warm start begin to soft ,and also when I go between 10-20km/h ( 3000 RPM ) shake also, the clutch is new, but the bands on it I review are a little thin  |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Sept 9, 2015 4:13:33 GMT -5
If the Yamaha designed engine requires 4T 20W50 which is a motorcycle specific oil then it requires that oil especially in a climate where the temperatures are in the 80 to 100 degree Fahrenheit range. If it is running a bit rough until it warms up that is what happens with a carburetored engine however it probably needs to have the carburetor adjusted now that its broken in.
On the clutch pads being thin the best way to determine this is by measuring them and comparing that by the max and minimum specifications in the manual. You can use the Yamaha Majesty 250 shop manual if this information is not printed in your owners manual.
Note that there is also a chance since its the Yamaha 250 design that it has been sitting in a warehouse for a long time and that the drive belt may have hardened from age causing it to vibrate and need replacement. What is the date of manufacture of the bike and what do the date stamps on the tires indicate? If they show more than a few years you may need a new belt and if five years or more then you also need to replace the tires considering the hot climate you are riding in.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by rock73 on Sept 9, 2015 9:53:18 GMT -5
Thank you,
My scooter was fabricated in 2013 and I bought it in September 2014, maybe the belt needs change..
|
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Sept 9, 2015 11:47:36 GMT -5
Thank you, My scooter was fabricated in 2013 and I bought it in September 2014, maybe the belt needs change.. That is not that bad. Some are still leftovers from 2008 or 2010 so the day you bought it the tires were bad and the brake fluid and coolant years past due for a change (brake fluid and coolant needs to be flushed out and replaced every two years). Still the belt could have set in one place too long and hardened that way or may be getting ready to fail from age. In hot climates rubber and cord products do tend to age faster. |
|
|
|
Post by hillbillybob on Sept 9, 2015 12:02:44 GMT -5
I can't see why a 4T oil is necessary, if a wet clutch isn't involved. Any 20W/50 should be fine.....especially when you are changing it at a 600 mile interval. I use the same 1000 km, (620 mile) change frequency, and I won't even waste my money by using a synthetic. I don't leave it in long enough to make it cost effective. Dino oil....a heavy duty diesel variety, is good enough for me and my two wheelers.
In your climate, I would probably stick with a 20W/50.....but it would be a conventional one.
If synthetics are your thing......there are a number of brands offered in 15W/50....as well as 20W50. Either would be less expensive than the $10 to $11 dollars charged here for one quart of 4T oil.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Sept 9, 2015 21:14:02 GMT -5
When do the vibrations occur most? Hello, the vibrations begin hard at first when I start the engine, after 7 minutes warm start begin to soft ,and also when I go between 10-20km/h ( 3000 RPM ) shake also, the clutch is new, but the bands on it I review are a little thin I don't know why your engine would be vibrating when you are not moving. Maybe a bad bearing, maybe a bad or loose engine mount. I would, of course, check the variator and rollers for signs of wear, wobble, etc, if it vibrates on the road. Check the engine mounts for loose bushings and such. |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by rock73 on Sept 10, 2015 9:40:26 GMT -5
I can't see why a 4T oil is necessary, if a wet clutch isn't involved. Any 20W/50 should be fine.....especially when you are changing it at a 600 mile interval. I use the same 1000 km, (620 mile) change frequency, and I won't even waste my money by using a synthetic. I don't leave it in long enough to make it cost effective. Dino oil....a heavy duty diesel variety, is good enough for me and my two wheelers. In your climate, I would probably stick with a 20W/50.....but it would be a conventional one. If synthetics are your thing......there are a number of brands offered in 15W/50....as well as 20W50. Either would be less expensive than the $10 to $11 dollars charged here for one quart of 4T oil. Hello HillBilly, Very nice bike your BMW R1200, a Beauty  !, well the owners manual for my Scooter says that SAE 20w50 4T - API SH, and yes is true a wet clutch isn't involved, now here in Venezuela the conventional oil for a car 20w50 cost the almost the same for bikes, sometimes one could find very good 4T Oil Mineral ( JASO MA Certified ) even more cheaper about 2 - 3 USD $ ( 290 Bs ) for 1 Quart Bottle, now considering this 250cc scooters engines run much more hotter, I would prefer keep using 4T oil than conventional, I've read in that a lot of folks in the USA ( Bobistheguyoil Forum ) use with success for their bikes Shell Rotella triple Performance 15w40 or Rottella T6 5w40 that is JASO MA Complaint, and this is for diesel/petrol.. Than you. |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by rock73 on Sept 10, 2015 9:59:09 GMT -5
Thanks rockynv / scooter, Yes I need to check the variator and rollers, it has been a nigthmare for me to dismounting the variator , The nut is ultra tight  , I don't have a Impact Wrench, is too pricey here, I just have a Locking Chain Clamp and Universal Cluth holder...maybe I need some vitamins to finish that job , LOL. |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Sept 10, 2015 11:54:48 GMT -5
Yamaha specifies 4T for a reason as do other major scooter manufacturer. I called the engineers at Piaggio and asked they why and was told it has to do with more than just wet clutches. Greater resistance to foaming and coking from hot spots are some of the additional considerations along with the higher rpm range that most bikes run at compared to automobiles. On a new Piaggio if they have to warranty an engine they will analyze the oil in it and if they find its not 4T they will deny you compensation and void your warranty.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 16
Likes: 1
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 22:43:34 GMT -5
|
Post by rock73 on Sept 10, 2015 12:06:13 GMT -5
Yamaha specifies 4T for a reason as do other major scooter manufactrer. I called the engineers at Piaggio and asked they why and was told it has to do with more than just wet clutches. Greater resistance to foaming and coking from hot spots are some of the additional considerations along with the higher rpm range that most bikes run at compared to automobiles. On a new Piaggio if they have to warranty an engine they will analyse the oil in it and if they find its not 4T they will deny you compensation and void your warranty. You have nailed down the point! and also I agree with Piaggio / Yamaha / JinLang engineers this matter |
|
|
|
Post by hillbillybob on Sept 10, 2015 16:28:57 GMT -5
Well, I guess you have it figured out then. Stick with what the manual says.
I'm going to add this though......I bought my first bike in 1965, and since then I have had bikes made in Japan (2), England (1), Germany (3), plus the Chinese Scooter. All operated on conventional oil just fine, and my current fleet of 3 continue to do so. I have never suffered a lubrication caused failure, in any of them, or any of the countless other vehicles I've owned through the years. Cars, pickups, ATV's, Ag tractors, 18 wheelers....millions, and millions of miles.....not 1 oil related failure, and all were run with conventional oil in the pans.
And by the way rock73.....All the major manufacturer's 15w/40 oils here, carry the API SM certification, for gasoline powered engines. Maybe it's different where you are.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldchopperguy on Sept 10, 2015 20:27:16 GMT -5
I agree with the advice here... My scooter, a Kymco 250 Grandvista manual specifies 15W-40 "Diesel" which I buy at the local Wal-Mart. My old Chinese Xingyue 150 manual specified the same. I've never had problems with either scooter using the recommended oil. The manufacturer recommends a specific oil for specific reasons. Best to stay with the recommendations.
As for vibrations, my 250 vibrates noticeably at idle, but vibrates MUCH more when the rear brake is applied, as when sitting on a hill at a red light. The brake "locks" the engine/swing-arm/suspension to the rest of the frame, increasing the felt engine vibration considerably.
Once I accelerate and begin moving, the engine becomes very smooth.
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
|
|
