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Post by ricardoguitars on Feb 6, 2015 14:30:41 GMT -5
As a consultant working with local, County and State Police and Prison jurusdictions over the years I came to know lots of officers and have not seen this gang or lots of bad or frustrated rambo type. Most are on your side and willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If more people took the time to say thank you and politely engage them when they see a police officer serving the community they might have quite a different impression of things. I guess it depends on the place and or mood you find the officer, also, they might not look like the "crazy" type on a normal situation. Don't get me wrong, I know there're lots of good cops out there, but like I said, we get to know the bad ones mostly because that's what the media usually exposes, you would probably never see on the news headlines a cop doing it's job right, that doesn't sell  |
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Post by shalomdawg on Feb 6, 2015 14:51:58 GMT -5
howdy, response only to news coverage. in our area the news media goes way above and beyond to cover anything nice that the police individual officers do. i have noticed in our area a tendency for the police to shoot first and ask later. if they have been allerted that there is a gun at the residence or in posession of anyone in the area that person can expect to be shot no matter whether they are the good guy or the bad. i would have to guess that is a conscious policy of the local police departments. afterward, there is a week while the department tries to spin the coverage to make it appear there was provocation that resulted in the wounding or killing of those injured.
this is just observation and only where i see the local situation.
lotsa miles and smiles to ya
ken
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Post by rdhood on Feb 6, 2015 15:15:45 GMT -5
 -  % of the cops are good. The problem is that the good cops cover that 5-10% instead of throwing them in prison for their felonies. When caught they sit home while still getting their pay, and the worst penalty is they are dismissed from the force. At about a million police officers, that is about 50,000-100,000 bad officers. Thats a well armed army of bad guys with power. No matter where you live, that affects you. |
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Post by JerryScript on Feb 6, 2015 15:32:41 GMT -5
While I agree with everyone who states your best course of action is to be polite to police, follow their orders, and never run away, that does not mean if you do not do one of those things you should be beaten. A beating is punishment, and the police do not have the authority to punish, that's what the courts and prison system are for. How many times have you seen an episode of COPS where they have just taken a suspect to the ground, and immediately are yelling at them to stop resisting? Cops are trained like the military to follow orders instantly, it saves their lives. Civilians are taught the exact opposite, to question everything in order to make an informed decision, and are not prepared to instantly respond to an officer's orders. The break-down in the system occurs when police take these moments of hesitation in responding to their orders and react violently to the situation. Until there is some form of humane immobilization, we will continue to see civilian's mistreated in order to "protect" those who are supposed to be protecting us!
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Post by ricardoguitars on Feb 6, 2015 16:18:33 GMT -5
While I agree with everyone who states your best course of action is to be polite to police, follow their orders, and never run away, that does not mean if you do not do one of those things you should be beaten. A beating is punishment, and the police do not have the authority to punish, that's what the courts and prison system are for. How many times have you seen an episode of COPS where they have just taken a suspect to the ground, and immediately are yelling at them to stop resisting? Cops are trained like the military to follow orders instantly, it saves their lives. Civilians are taught the exact opposite, to question everything in order to make an informed decision, and are not prepared to instantly respond to an officer's orders. The break-down in the system occurs when police take these moments of hesitation in responding to their orders and react violently to the situation. Until there is some form of humane immobilization, we will continue to see civilian's mistreated in order to "protect" those who are supposed to be protecting us! Agree, you cannot be treated like a criminal without evidence, the police exhist to protect the civilians, not to harass them and treat them like criminals until you can prove the opposite. Around here motorcyclist are "discriminated" by the police, in many years as a cager I've never been pulled over by the police (our traffic police and law enforcement police are different, one catches thieves, murderers and the likes; and the other put order on the streets), but just a couple of weeks after becoming a motorcyclist I've been pulled over several times by the police without evident reason, just to "get checked", in one occasion the a-hole made a full search on me (no cavity search, luckly  ) and my scoot asking over and over if I had drugs on me  |
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Post by scootdude on Feb 6, 2015 17:13:33 GMT -5
Most of the people who become cops are social rejects. They're the ones who in high school had the "kick me" sign taped to their backs. They become cops to reaffirm their over-bloated sense of self importance that stems from a profound inferiority complex. They've got a score to settle with the very society that rejected them. These people are especially dangerous because in addition to a Messianic complex, they have a serious need to be seen as important authority figures. The worst thing you can do is defy their sense of omnipotence. Even though police aren't the ones to "punish", they take it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner all too often. I've never once met a cop that I thought was a decent person. There's a paper thin line between cop and crook.
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Post by javarod on Feb 6, 2015 21:36:55 GMT -5
Depending on the jurisdiction flight can force the officer to respond by policy to attempt to shoot you in the arm or leg with no real personal choice in the matter. Actually its illegal for them to shoot a fleeing suspect per an  Supreme Court ruling. This came up with the Ferguson mess because it was found out that the county prosecutor's office gave the Grand Jury an outdated version of the law, replacing it at the last minute without explaining to them the difference. Basically unless the person represents a danger to the public or police, its illegal to shoot at them. Good luck getting a conviction against the cops. Cops seem to be above the law in every case against them that I've seen. I hope justice prevails in this case and these cops go to prison where they belong. Its amazing that the Grand Jury found them guilty, the statistics on Grand Juries doesn't offer much hope, its something like 99% conviction rate except for cops where its around 1%. ... Cops seem to be above the law in every case against them that I've seen. I hope justice prevails in this case and these cops go to prison where they belong. - % of the cops are good. The problem is that the good cops cover that 5-10% instead of throwing them in prison for their felonies. When caught they sit home while still getting their pay, and the worst penalty is they are dismissed from the force. [/quote] Bigger problem is the unions which'll protect them members regardless of their guilt. These officers likely will return to the force even after this, complete with back pay, the union'll see to that. Scariest thing involving the police lately is the news out of NYC where they want to change resisting arrest to a felony. Considering that they use a charge of resisting arrest as a catch all when they have no other reason to arrest you, you can see the problem with that. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 7, 2015 8:47:26 GMT -5
Depending on the jurisdiction flight can force the officer to respond by policy to attempt to shoot you in the arm or leg with no real personal choice in the matter. Actually its illegal for them to shoot a fleeing suspect per an Supreme Court ruling. This came up with the Ferguson mess because it was found out that the county prosecutor's office gave the Grand Jury an outdated version of the law, replacing it at the last minute without explaining to them the difference. Basically unless the person represents a danger to the public or police, its illegal to shoot at them. To every rule there is an exception and trust me there are venues where a person running that is not wearing an official badged police uniform can result in shots being fired sometimes by police snipers whose only job will be to shoot anyone who runs in that area without the required uniform or uniformed escort as they will automatically be considered a danger. Running beside or in-between two uniformed escorts would be OK however being chased would not. High crime areas at certain times of the night, residential areas that are cordoned off by swat teams with the homes of the residents sand bagged for their protection which require a police escort to safely enter or exit are two examples. Certain governmental buildings, court facilities and the like may also have restrictions on running that could automatically classify the runner as a public danger especially if they have defied a request to halt and provide identification. Of course the paperwork and review afterwards is enough to make an officer take pause even when they do have just cause to view someone as a public danger. In certain parts of Europe it has been SOP to even shoot hostages to drop them and get at those holding them captive. My Father-in-Law was trained for that duty and had to go to Medical School to be trained to make a visual assessment of the hostages health so he could take a drop shot that would put them down while giving them the best chance of survival after their captor was shot. He also had to asses the capabilities of the medical facilities and transportation available when taking the shot. Officers assigned that duty were screened for any signs of aggression or criminal tendencies along with 5 generations of their family and if members of the family even 5 generations back did not pass then the officer would be rejected. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Feb 7, 2015 9:12:36 GMT -5
Most of the people who become cops are social rejects. They're the ones who in high school had the "kick me" sign taped to their backs. They become cops to reaffirm their over-bloated sense of self importance that stems from a profound inferiority complex. They've got a score to settle with the very society that rejected them. These people are especially dangerous because in addition to a Messianic complex, they have a serious need to be seen as important authority figures. The worst thing you can do is defy their sense of omnipotence. Even though police aren't the ones to "punish", they take it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner all too often. I've never once met a cop that I thought was a decent person. There's a paper thin line between cop and crook. No...there is often no line at all. The police should be treated like any other armed gangbangers. They are the world's most dangerous street gang. |
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Post by rockynv on Feb 8, 2015 8:28:39 GMT -5
Most of the people who become cops are social rejects. They're the ones who in high school had the "kick me" sign taped to their backs. They become cops to reaffirm their over-bloated sense of self importance that stems from a profound inferiority complex. They've got a score to settle with the very society that rejected them. These people are especially dangerous because in addition to a Messianic complex, they have a serious need to be seen as important authority figures. The worst thing you can do is defy their sense of omnipotence. Even though police aren't the ones to "punish", they take it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner all too often. I've never once met a cop that I thought was a decent person. There's a paper thin line between cop and crook. No...there is often no line at all. The police should be treated like any other armed gangbangers. They are the world's most dangerous street gang. That is just hyperbole that I would have to highly disagree with. I have worked with various police and prison administrations in the US over the years and any officer that shows the most minute sign of being so inclined would be under scrutiny and highly monitored. Even a totally justified incident with no brutality charged where force had to be used gets reviewed and a qualified psychologist will be called in during the review process. Yes other parts of the world are not as constrained having dealt with acts of terrorism locally for many more years then here however the police especially in the USA by far are not dangerous street gangs. I have one former co-worker who tends to have a temper that flairs up and now works for the Sheriffs Department in administration. He did not pass psych evaluation to carry or assist officers and remains an unarmed Tech Admin who is not allowed to interact with the prisoners. You might be surprised how many times an officer will put in a good word for someone that they had to arrest or for a prisoner who was involved in a incident recommending lenience during their hearings. Too many good officers get shot, permanently disabled or killed due to their kindness and mild manner. Just from my years of personal experience working with actual Chiefs, Sheriffs, prison officials, officers and prison guards along with interacting with the prisoners themselves one-on-one. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Feb 8, 2015 12:55:54 GMT -5
Not the chiefs...its the street cops, the thugs.
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Post by JerryScript on Feb 8, 2015 14:09:54 GMT -5
In my opinion, it is the training and tactics that are to blame, causing even the best person to be not the best authority figure due to having to follow established training a departmental procedures. At some point, the focus shifted from protecting and serving the public, to protecting themselves in a matter that significantly reduced the public's respect for them. I personally believe the only solution is for technology to develop a humane form of immobilization. This would allow the police to feel safe enough to put the focus back on protecting and serving the public. Until then, it will continue to be an us vs them mindset that will guide police actions.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 9, 2015 13:07:09 GMT -5
Not the chiefs...its the street cops, the thugs. I have worked with them all including the prisoners. Even prisoners who let their hair down after you have worked with them through 12 hour days for weeks and months do not have this attitude that patrol officers on a beat are thugs. Makes for a good movie and possibly true in a few incidents out of many millions of arrests during the year but by no means are the police thugs. If people take this thug and gange hype to heart and believe it, that will be highly unfortunate as it will only put a chip on their shoulders and ecourage them to present themselves as a threat. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Feb 9, 2015 23:19:24 GMT -5
Just HOW bad does a cop have to be for you to not defend him?
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Post by psychedelicode on Feb 10, 2015 0:13:18 GMT -5
Just HOW bad does a cop have to be for you to not defend him? Sorry I have to post this again in this thread. Im not a cop hater, but I do believe that many go beyond the reasonable to achieve the results that they want. That being said, In the military (Navy) and afterwards, I have met many good cops (just from my line of work) who have not held my background against me (I was a "bad" kid when I was young and they knew it) and actually supported me in my endeavors. One in particular went beyond bed bath and beyond to defend me when a (security) firm I worked for tried to dismiss me for insubordination when I was not even on duty that day. He just happened to be the door guard that day. He actually got canned from the sheriffs dept. for his testimony. AND HIS DAD WAS DEPUTY DIRECTOR!!!!! The police are far out of line and deserve to be punished like any other civilian. |
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% of the cops are good. The problem is that the good cops cover that 5-10% instead of throwing them in prison for their felonies. When caught they sit home while still getting their pay, and the worst penalty is they are dismissed from the force. 
Supreme Court ruling. This came up with the Ferguson mess because it was found out that the county prosecutor's office gave the Grand Jury an outdated version of the law, replacing it at the last minute without explaining to them the difference. Basically unless the person represents a danger to the public or police, its illegal to shoot at them.
