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Post by pheenix42 on Sept 4, 2014 19:47:04 GMT -5
So, you see a nice machine in a classified ad. You go to take a look and are quite impressed with the condition, and are now considering the purchase. But...the guy you speak to tells you he has no title for it, and he has no way of contacting the fellow whom he got it from to hunt up the document.
Is all lost, or are there a set of hoops one can jump through to obtain a title in your name?
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Post by SylvreKat on Sept 4, 2014 20:39:48 GMT -5
Uhm, first off, is it stolen?
Second, the car auctioneer guy told me yes, you can get a title. Just be prepared with time and money 'cause it's not particularly easy, nor cheap.
>'Kat
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Post by rockynv on Sept 4, 2014 21:47:02 GMT -5
The do steal quite a few nice looking bikes don't they? I get a kick out of the ones that have them for sale and tell you I bought it without a title and am selling it that way. Some have multiple bikes and illegally swap the plate from a junk bike they bought that did have a title and could be registered and expect you to do the same.
Keep repeating "No Title No Sale".
If they lost the title it will be cheaper for them to get a replacement than for you. Here on a vehicle less than 10 years old a replacement title is $25 for the original owner while for a buyer who purchased one without a title it could run into hundreds before the standard title fee is applied meaning you could spend more on getting the title than the bike is worth.
Even with a title, request to see their drivers license taking a cell phone pic of it and if they won't provide that positive ID that proves they are the person named on the title then walk away.
Sometimes I will clip my cellphone to my jacket pocket and set it to record the transaction if I get a bad feeling walking in. If my hackles go up after meeting the seller I just tell him I didn't realize the bike was that small, big or whatever is an obvious description of the bike to make an excuse to stop talking and walk away.
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Post by bvance554 on Sept 4, 2014 23:24:02 GMT -5
It depends where you are. Many scooters, such as mine never shipped without a title. In VA you can take the bill of sale you received form the seller with an 'Application For Title' to the DMV and get a title for $20. Neither expensive nor labor intensive.
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Post by SylvreKat on Sept 5, 2014 7:04:36 GMT -5
In VA you can take the bill of sale you received form the seller with an 'Application For Title' to the DMV and get a title for $20. Wow. So anyone can steal any scooter, forge up a bill of sale, and have a legal bike for $20?  Remind me to never move to VA. Then again, in MO you can steal someone's older car and sell it to the scrap yard 'cause they don't require titles if it's past a certain year. Nice, huh. >'Kat |
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Post by rockynv on Sept 5, 2014 11:57:17 GMT -5
Yep there are a few states like that which is why many legitimate dealers will really scrutinize any out of state trades that come in from them sometimes flatly refusing them. After a flood you really have to watch out for any recently titled cars coming from Virginia or Pennsylvania. There are car haulers that will go through flooded areas and buy up all the uninsured cars so there wont already be a salvage title on them and retitle them in those states to then sell them in other parts of the country. They clean and wax them real quick and get them running but eventually the flood damage become evident however they are long gone by then.
Here they do a complete and thorough title search and it takes a lot to prove ownership. Much harder to flip a stolen car and turn it legitimate with just paperwork here.
Even if you can cheaply retitle a potentially stolen bike why would an ethical person do it?
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Post by wheelbender6 on Sept 5, 2014 18:45:55 GMT -5
Depends. If the bike has been titled before, but the title has been lost, you can sometimes get a bonded title.
If the bike has never been titled, steer clear.
Some states have websites where you can look up that info by VIN.
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Post by SylvreKat on Sept 5, 2014 22:19:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't take a shady bike. But for instance there's a localish guy trying to sell his dad's relatively-unridden scoot. Dad never bothered to title it. Just drove it for 66 miles then decided he was done with it. Or maybe he died? Don't remember now, guy's taken that part off his ads.
Assuming I was interested and went and talked with guy and everything really did seem legit as he described, then I would consider buying it. But that would be with the understanding that in KS it'll take a lot of effort and money to get it titled. Plus back taxes since I'm pretty sure it can't be licensed without being titled.
As for flipping a stolen car, I wish that's what MO allowed. But no, all they allow is scrap yards to buy older cars without the "owner" (or, more accurately, car thief) producing any sort of paperwork/title/keys/whatever. The scrap yards have to know those cars are all stolen, but whatever. So someone steals my old wagon, I'll pretty much have no chance to recover anything except a crushed block. Real dooshy of the law-makers. I canNOT figure out any legitimate reason for this law to exist. I mean, absolutely nobody benefits except the car thieves. Not the legislators, not the scrap yards, not insurance companies. Maybe car dealers who get to sell more used cars?
>'Kat, living in fear that one day I'll walk out and find empty space where my Taury-wagon was sitting....
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Post by JerryScript on Sept 5, 2014 23:33:13 GMT -5
What's truly pathetic about the entire situation is that we are living in the internet age, yet the government can't seem to figure out how to use it to deal with these types of situations. A simple national registry could be established, with the manufacturers providing VINs and other necessary details. Tie it into a stolen bike database, and you have a simple method of determining the provenance of any bike. Establish a waiting period for notification of previous owners, allowing them to make claims that the bike was stolen, and if they fail to respond or the purchaser shows a bill of sale from that previous owner, then the person attempting to title the bike is free and clear. This covers everyone, and should help with theft issues as well. Of course, I'm referring to something easy the government should do, so it probably will never be done.
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Post by bvance554 on Sept 7, 2014 0:32:01 GMT -5
^^ That sounds great, but I'd rather not have the government create a national registry. They can't run anything efficiently and would surely muck it up.
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Post by Jarlaxle on Sept 7, 2014 15:28:05 GMT -5
In VA you can take the bill of sale you received form the seller with an 'Application For Title' to the DMV and get a title for $20. Wow. So anyone can steal any scooter, forge up a bill of sale, and have a legal bike for $20? Remind me to never move to VA. Then again, in MO you can steal someone's older car and sell it to the scrap yard 'cause they don't require titles if it's past a certain year. Nice, huh. >'Kat States not titling older cars is VERY common...I'm in NH, and they do not title anything older than 15 years. RI's cutoff is (or at least,was) ten years. I recall Vermont is also 15 years. I recall my uncle telling me that for a while, Texas didn't title bikes at all! (He was stationed at Fort Hood and bought a Matchless.) |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Sept 7, 2014 15:30:08 GMT -5
^^ That sounds great, but I'd rather not have the government create a national registry. They can't run anything efficiently and would surely muck it up. I kind of agree...but I have top say that I would LOVE a nationwide registry of known STOLEN vehicle VIN's! |
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Post by rockynv on Sept 8, 2014 4:15:36 GMT -5
^^ That sounds great, but I'd rather not have the government create a national registry. They can't run anything efficiently and would surely muck it up. I kind of agree...but I have top say that I would LOVE a nationwide registry of known STOLEN vehicle VIN's! That would only work if people reported the thefts which unfortunately many don't. CarFax and Esperion do list bikes by VIN Number that were reported stolen Nationally but.... |
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Post by SylvreKat on Sept 8, 2014 23:23:13 GMT -5
Might be a stupid question here, but why would anyone not report a stolen vehicle?
As for not titling older cars, first off how do you license them and drive them legally then? Second, it's not the state not titling them that bothers me, it's that MO permits junkyards to buy older cars with no titles or any sort of proof of ownership. How much does a stolen car get you at a scrapyard? $50? More? Less? Sigh. Someone steals my wagon just to junk him, and I don't care what the law says I'll hunt down the thief and junk him!
>'Kat, not letting no one mess with my Taurie-car!!
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Post by rockynv on Sept 9, 2014 3:39:22 GMT -5
Many view them as not worth the bother. Many times especially with a scooter which is worth less than the deductible on a stacked policy you might be better off not reporting a theft than having the cost of insuring your other vehicles go up double the value of the scooter for the next 5 to 7 years. Its all about exposure and if you have several expensive vehicles insured for a say $4,000 dollars a year are you going to declare the theft of a $500 bike or even $1,000 clunker and then pay the insurance company and extra $1,000 a year for 7 years ($7,000 total) or just take the single $500 to $1,000 hit?
If you have a business, took a vehicle in trade and it gets stolen off your lot before you file the papers on it you are going to take a hard look at what its going to cost you if you report it. My brother traded in his car and a few years later got a notice from the police that it had been involved in a crime and had been in impound so he would have to pay a few thousand dollars now to get it out of impound and to bring his account up to date. He had to prove he traded it in and that the dealer had not reported it stolen off his lot to clear the charges as outstanding against him.
Yes there are reasons some may not report a theft as above or simply because they may be too embarrassed to report the location of the theft.
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