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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 21, 2014 22:51:00 GMT -5
Last week put the Dr. Pulley variator on, but with mediocre results. My 150cc Gy6 tops out at 55mph, +/- on level ground - with RPMs at 6800 to 7000. Both the speed and RPMs seem low to me. But since both RPMs and top speed are low, I don't know if the engine is just pooping out or if there is a transmission issue going on. Tonight removed the side cover to see how far the belt was using the drive face - looks like the outer 3/8" or so is not being used. i62.tinypic.com/5bbamc.jpg So it seems to me the belt is just not being driven high enough on the drive plate. I am running 11 gr sliders. The Dr. Pulley variator came with three 'washers' they said you could place between the static pulley (outside drive plate) and the boss - effectively making the boss longer and widening the gap between the 2 plates. Without any other instructions i picked the heftiest washer and have been running with it (turns out it was 0.038").  The other 2 washers are each 0.020" and the instructions said you could use from 0 to all 3. For yuks i removed the washer I was using and will try tomorrow to see if there is any difference. But does anyone actually know what is up with this ... or have any ideas on if I'm even looking at the right issue? |
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 21, 2014 23:08:09 GMT -5
Without the washer in there you should see the belt may climb a little higher. Widening the BOSS what your doing is as the belt climbs up there is less pressure on the built to move it up higher on the face. So mark the Variator by the edge about 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch with a marker and run it without the washer it should climb a little higher than the shiny part currently left. Alleyoop  |
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 22, 2014 0:12:13 GMT -5
Good idea!
But are you saying I won't get very much more of the drive face - just a little bit?
Are my sliders too light?
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 13:04:54 GMT -5
Your slider are actually to heavy , what you need are either 10 gram or 9.5 gram sliders . Your rpms are to low at top end , if you use heavier weights the rpms will only drop . And that's why your belt is not rising on the variator . Just like the difference in my 68 mph run and my 73 mph run , my engine didn't have the power to spin the heavier weights fast enough to push the belt up the variator , I dropped .5 grams and the rpm to weight ratio was enough to push the belt higher on the variator . Which means my rpms rose high enough to allow the .5 gram lighter weights to raise the belt higher . When it comes to the inserts for the variator I would just make sure the belt isn't laying on the boss and you should be fine . Also it shouldn't matter where the belt starts , the weights are going to have the same amount of pressure on the belt which should raise the belt just as high . Your clutch will open exactly the same as it would if the belt started up higher .
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 13:11:34 GMT -5
Last week put the Dr. Pulley variator on, but with mediocre results. My 150cc Gy6 tops out at 55mph, +/- on level ground - with RPMs at 6800 to 7000. Both the speed and RPMs seem low to me. But since both RPMs and top speed are low, I don't know if the engine is just pooping out or if there is a transmission issue going on. Tonight removed the side cover to see how far the belt was using the drive face - looks like the outer 3/8" or so is not being used. i62.tinypic.com/5bbamc.jpgSo it seems to me the belt is just not being driven high enough on the drive plate. I am running 11 gr sliders. The Dr. Pulley variator came with three 'washers' they said you could place between the static pulley (outside drive plate) and the boss - effectively making the boss longer and widening the gap between the 2 plates. Without any other instructions i picked the heftiest washer and have been running with it (turns out it was 0.038"). The other 2 washers are each 0.020" and the instructions said you could use from 0 to all 3. For yuks i removed the washer I was using and will try tomorrow to see if there is any difference. But does anyone actually know what is up with this ... or have any ideas on if I'm even looking at the right issue? geh3333 Senior Rider 5 minutes ago Quote Your slider are actually to heavy , what you need are either 10 gram or 9.5 gram sliders . Your rpms are to low at top end , if you use heavier weights the rpms will only drop . And that's why your belt is not rising on the variator . Just like the difference in my 68 mph run and my 73 mph run , my engine didn't have the power to spin the heavier weights fast enough to push the belt up the variator , I dropped .5 grams and the rpm to weight ratio was enough to push the belt higher on the variator . Which means my rpms rose high enough to allow the .5 gram lighter weights to raise the belt higher . When it comes to the inserts for the variator I would just make sure the belt isn't laying on the boss and you should be fine . Also it shouldn't matter where the belt starts , the weights are going to have the same amount of pressure on the belt which should raise the belt just as high . Your clutch will open exactly the same as it would if the belt started up higher . Read more: itistheride.boards.net/thread/6605/expert-advice-re-variator?page=1#post-75468#ixzz3B96JtjFs |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 13:21:28 GMT -5
Let me explain this a little more . Let's say your variators boss is very short , so short that it causes the belt to start 1/2 way up the variator . The belt will not begin to rise until the rpms reach the point to where the weights begin to push the belt over 1/2 way up the variator . My belt starts about a 1/2 inch up the variator , so if I use a spacer and drop my belt down , as my belt begins to raise over 1/2 an inch up the variator my rpms are still going to be the same at this point as it was when the belt started 1/2inch up the variator . Hopefully this isn't to confusing . I'd like to add that he variator was designed with the belt starting at the bottom of the ramp so until you get that set right it will not work the way it was intended . Also I should mention that the clutch has a big part to play in why this is true
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -5
The more I look at the pic you posted the more it looks as if your belt is pretty loose , what I would do if I were you is put a smaller spacer in " make sure the belt is not sitting on the boss and loose " next I would lower my slider weights to 10 gram and see how that works for you . U may need to drop to 9.5 gram .
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 22, 2014 15:50:11 GMT -5
You have a short case motor like I have, so the belt should be 743-20-30 is it? The reason the belt may be a little loose is due to the spacer dropping the belt down in the variator. So the first thing is just take the spacer out and mark the variator to see if any good things happen.
Lighter weights may not always will move the belt up higher, that is because it take more rpms to move the weights out to the same height as with little heavier weights. Lighter weights may just get you up to speed quicker but may not get you more top end speed. It is a balancing act really, with weights, rpms and springs. The best you can get the variator is when the belt climbs to 1/8 from the edge. Once you achieve that then for additional top end speed you need more rpms if the motor can produce them or put in taller tranny gears.
Alleyoop
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 22, 2014 16:08:18 GMT -5
Thanks! Explanation was both clear and very interesting.
I think you said you 'ground down' your sliders to achieve 9.5gr (some other thread, unless I'm mistaken). How? On the side, or did you drill out the center metal dowel?
ps: just ordered a 60 mm BBK that "fits without boring" (hope that's true). Have a large exhaust manifold being delivered tomorrow probably. Anything else I should consider?
pss: someone should make a turbo kit for these things!
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 22, 2014 16:11:35 GMT -5
Alley - yes: 743 20 30 A Bando brand. Wondering if I should get a real belt now or wait till this thing craps out.
about RPM:
The rpm I'm getting is very low. Never ever seem to get more than about 7K .... typically more like 6,800 at WOT.
Does this indicate i have a poor setup?
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 16:39:07 GMT -5
Thanks! Explanation was both clear and very interesting. I think you said you 'ground down' your sliders to achieve 9.5gr (some other thread, unless I'm mistaken). How? On the side, or did you drill out the center metal dowel? ps: just ordered a 60 mm BBK that "fits without boring" (hope that's true). Have a large exhaust manifold being delivered tomorrow probably. Anything else I should consider? pss: someone should make a turbo kit for these things! yes I ground down 10 gram weighs to 9 gram weights . What I did was used a dremel with a cylinder type grinding bit that fit inside the weight " the brass " and I did my best to bring the brass down as evenly as possible , and I kept weighing the roller " slider in your case " so I didn't go to far . Now in your case id probably first grind 3 weights to 10 grams and stagger them with the 3 11 grams to make 10.5 and if that's not enough i would then grind the other three to 10 grams to make an even 10 gram all the way around . And if it seems like you need to go to 9.5 them you would grind 3 down to 9 grams and stagger the 9's and 10's to make 9.5 grams . Just make sure you post your results after each time you drop in weight . Also do what alley says about markin the variator . The only way your going to see a rise by removing the spacer and doing nothing else is if you were past the point of the variators operation at takeoff , like if the belt was way to loose , and it would be very minimal at best . Either way you should be able to hit higher rpms then 68 to 7000 . The only way to do this is to lower the weight of the sliders . I'm sure you will see better results . And yes they do make a turbo for these beasts . Lol |
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Post by alleyoop on Aug 22, 2014 16:48:31 GMT -5
Well part of the problem is the Dr. pulley variator I do not like them at all, they make the belt climb up to high to fast and causes you to loose rpms. But I think I mentioned that on another thread if I remember correctly. My Stock Motor would produce 8K+ rpms at wot had it up to 8500rpms with 10 grams rollers, 11gram around 7800, 12gram around 7200-7300, 13gram 6800-7000. As far as the belt goes BANDO is a good belt notice how much material it has. I like BANDO over gates, I have some gates and they have less material than bando and even the width on the bando is wider than the gates. So if you have 11 gram weights in there and only getting under 7K rpms something is not right. Actually this is the first time I heard someone go down to 9.5 grams to get more rpms which also indicates something is not right with that setup as well( I know why but everyone does his thing). Just about all 150s you get the best out of them with 11-12 gram weights. Now here is a BEAST of a motor that will easly do wheelies. If you can get to this point you have bragging rights  Alleyoop |
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 18:58:58 GMT -5
The reason some of us have to drop down to 9.5 grams is because we were sent a different variator then expected , , the new variator weighed more then even all of my stock variators , even more then my very first Koso . So this could explain the reason I have to use 9.5 grams . Now when it comes to his dr pulley he is only running at 68 to 7000 with 11 gram sliders And the weight of the rider comes into play . I weigh about 210 and if my buddy takes it for a ride the rpms skyrocket due to him weighing much less than me . So remember weight of the rider makes a big difference in the size weights you want to run in the variator . I don't think I'll be pullin wheelies any time soon , lol but I have done something that obviously no one else has done with a 58.5 " 67mph flat ridin"and that is impressive . The beast comment was obviously called sarcasm " I even played in a band called the sarcastcs" . Out of republic pa . Good times
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 22, 2014 19:28:58 GMT -5
Hey alley you peeked my curiosity , in what way is your bando wider than a gates ? Because the only way it might be wider would be from the outer top of the belt to the wavey inside of the belt ," I was wondering how they hold up as good as a gates thanks alley " even though my bando I have as a spare is the same size as all of my gates belts . But no bando is a good belt when compared to a standard gates , but they won't hold up as long as the Kevlar " aramid gates belts " . But we all have are opinions .
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Post by rcq92130 on Aug 22, 2014 20:08:18 GMT -5
So what kind of thing might be restricting my RPMs?
I have a Uni filter and a drilled out exhaust. ScootDg CDI with no rpm limit (supposedly). The big variator & 11 gr sliders (I did NOT lubricate the slider ramps ... hope that is OK). 115 jet in stock carb. Everything else is stock. Valves are adjusted to .005. All unneeded vacuum hoses gone.
I'm doing SOMETHING very wrong ....
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
