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Post by ramblinman on Dec 20, 2013 19:16:02 GMT -5
i may not know much about how a clutch works but i am learning... when you are trying to maximize speed with an engine that has very little horse power, the clutch pulley must be easy to open.
i just installed a new (expensive) clutch and i lost 7 mph. i knew the pulley was difficult to open and since it came with a yellow contra spring i spent part of my day changing it with one of my old clutch springs.
one thing i noticed once i got it apart... the pulley still required force to separate. my old one moves freely with spring removed. i don't know what is inside the pulley but i am going to find out. i have 3 clutch's, none of them are working the way i expect them too. i'm going to try to make one good clutch out of all the parts.
so for all you 50cc guys that are not happy with your top speed... check to see how difficult it is to separate the clutch pulley. you probably can check to see how high the belt is riding on the variator. if it isn't riding to the outer edge and your clutch pulley is very difficult to open then the problem maybe solved with a softer contra spring, assuming your pulley separates freely when taken apart.
i'll add more to this thread when i learn more about why my pulley is so difficult to open.
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Post by imarider on Dec 20, 2013 19:35:33 GMT -5
When changed the your clutch, did you change the variator weights?
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Post by ramblinman on Dec 20, 2013 19:42:15 GMT -5
When changed the your clutch, did you change the variator weights? no, only change was the clutch because the needle bearings were damaged on my old clutch. |
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Post by imarider on Dec 20, 2013 19:56:47 GMT -5
with the higher rated springs you may need to change your roller weights to get it to work better
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Post by ramblinman on Dec 20, 2013 20:02:13 GMT -5
with the higher rated springs you may need to change your roller weights to get it to work better the pulley is difficult to separate even when i had it apart. you could probably run this clutch without a contra spring. (well, not really, lol) that is where the problem is, i believe. i could be wrong but it seems like a good place to start. |
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Post by millsc on Dec 20, 2013 21:38:40 GMT -5
The stiffer contra spring raises the rpm now your overreving and loosing speed. Heavier torque springs require heavier weights.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 21, 2013 10:49:34 GMT -5
It is a balancing act. I found that the standard clutch from Parts for Scooters had a good balance and worked well on my 150 with 12 gram rollers in the variator.
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Post by ltdhpp on Dec 21, 2013 11:33:00 GMT -5
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
You are all talking about the TORQUE SHEAVE which has NOTHING to do with the clutch!!!
The CLUTCH controls the RPM engagement of your rear wheel, THAT IS ALL!!! The clutch does not open and close! The torque sheave and contra spring controls the opening/closing of the rear pulley!
You will never be able to fine tune a CVT if you don't even know what parts you are talking about.
/rant
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Post by ramblinman on Dec 21, 2013 13:40:31 GMT -5
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! You are all talking about the TORQUE SHEAVE which has NOTHING to do with the clutch!!! The CLUTCH controls the RPM engagement of your rear wheel, THAT IS ALL!!! The clutch does not open and close! The torque sheave and contra spring controls the opening/closing of the rear pulley! You will never be able to fine tune a CVT if you don't even know what parts you are talking about. /rant lol... thought we were talking about the contra spring? the torque sheave (thank you, didn't know the term) has resistance on my new clutch unlike my old one so no matter how weak the contra spring is, my scoot doesn't have enough power to open the pulley. so i would say it does have plenty to do with the clutch in this case. i'm going to use my old pulley with the new clutch pads and bell, if i see performance boost i will let you know. |
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Post by nulldevice on Dec 21, 2013 20:09:30 GMT -5
With the spring removed and the driven pulley assembly put back together without the spring it should move with very little, if any, effort. It sounds like yours was damaged somehow. Lack of lubrication? Rust? A piece of broken belt stuck inside? BFH assembly by someone else? Who knows.
The TMAX has seals and has a light grease between the two pieces. I don't know about the Chinese scooters. I never had to take that part apart. Check out this video at about 6:30. It gives a very good idea what you will find inside.
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Post by skuttadawg on Dec 21, 2013 23:19:05 GMT -5
I have the hoca bb torque spring base on my 2T ( also available for for the 4T ) and it prevents the torqure spring from binding and has smoother " shifts "
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Post by skuttadawg on Dec 21, 2013 23:20:35 GMT -5
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Post by ramblinman on Dec 22, 2013 16:58:01 GMT -5
I never had to take that part apart. Check out this video at about 6:30. It gives a very good idea what you will find inside. thanks, i found this vid yesterday: 12:10 mark shows how to take apart. it is a little annoying that i have to waste time fixing a new clutch (torque sheave) but i'd rather do that than send it back (assuming i can easily fix it). i swapped out my old pulley yesterday to use with the new clutch shoes and bell. works well now so i'm in no hurry to take it apart again. |
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Post by ltdhpp on Dec 24, 2013 17:14:45 GMT -5
The clutch is not the torque sheave! the clutch has nothing to do with the contra spring! the clutch controls what rpm your back wheel starts moving at take off ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by alleyoop on Dec 24, 2013 19:20:48 GMT -5
QUESTION:
What color are the 3 CLUTCH ARM PAD springs. I think what you got is a performance Clutch with colored springs yellow red or blue and what that does is require a lot more centrtifigual force to throw out the pads to grab the bell which to do so REQUIRES much higher rpms to turn your wheel. So you probably ran out of RPMS and that is what is causing your MPH LOSS.
Same thing with the CONTRA SPRING if it is colored sameo sameo.
If so take your SPRINGS from the old clutch and put them in the NEW clutch and you will be fine.
Alleyoop
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..BAD TO THE BONE..