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Post by kxj5906 on Oct 31, 2013 23:15:58 GMT -5
I have a Vespa GTS 250. The other day, I made the mistake of buying 20 W – 50 engine oil. My Vespa calls for 5W – 40 engine oil. i added the 20 W – 50 into it, and it looks like I didn't have enough in the bottle so I also added some 15 W – 40 engine oil in there as well. Is this going to cause any damage?
Also, is it okay to use a combination of synthetic, semisynthetic, and regular oil mixed together? What will happen?
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Post by pmatulew on Nov 1, 2013 5:27:30 GMT -5
A chemist will tell you that mixing is a bad idea. Sometimes the additives in the different recipes don't play nice together and you may end up with a gooey mess.
I put heavy oil in a sport bike engine one time and it did not like it at all. The close tolerances in the engine were struggling against the oil and it ran really poorly. No choice but to drain it and start over.
If I could afford a GTS, (I wish!), it would be a no brainer to spend another $20 to replace the oil and the filter with the correct flavor.
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Post by kxj5906 on Nov 1, 2013 7:23:35 GMT -5
Yeah I figured using different oils would cause a mess. I typed in the question using Google but there were a lot of answers that said it didn't matter if you use different types of oil together.. Hmmm
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2013 7:38:33 GMT -5
First off 50 weight is too heavy for our little oil pumps. For crying out loud, a 5 dollar oil change is the only regular thing you need to do to get the most life out of your scooter. Just do it right!
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Post by prodigit on Nov 2, 2013 14:36:02 GMT -5
mixing oils can't harm at all.
In fact Mobil is one of the leaders on oil, says it themselves on their website, and who goes against the knowledge of a big company, who has been in the oil business for many decades, like theirs?
Anyway, no harm done in mixing, but your oil is too heavy for your scoot.
Depending on how many miles you have on the scoot, you should not go higher than 15W40.
Reasonably new scoots, with less than 10k Miles on them should do with anywhere between 5W30 and 10W40 (that includes 10W30, 5W40, or any mix in between).
You really mixed the heaviest oils. If you had put 3/4th of 20W50 in there, I would say, add the remaining oil with 0W20, and it would be ok.
Now I'd have to agree with above poster, redo the oil change.
You could capture the oil, put it in a bottle, fill your scoot with 50% of that oil you just captured,
and buy a bottle of anywhere between 0W20 and 5W30 and add it to the oil you have in there.
Mixing 0W20 with 20W50 in a 50/50 ratio should give you 10W45, which is rather on the thick side, but should work.
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 2, 2013 14:44:15 GMT -5
The only time you want to use 20W50 or so is if you live where it is always HOTTER than a skunk 100 and + degree weather or if you have a pretty good leak and you cannot get it fixing it right away. The 20w50 might help the leak.
Alleyoop
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Post by prodigit on Nov 2, 2013 17:34:53 GMT -5
diesel engines and old harleys with 75-100k miles on (or more) use 20W50
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Post by rockynv on Nov 2, 2013 21:34:06 GMT -5
I have a Vespa GTS 250. The other day, I made the mistake of buying 20 W – 50 engine oil. My Vespa calls for 5W – 40 engine oil. i added the 20 W – 50 into it, and it looks like I didn't have enough in the bottle so I also added some 15 W – 40 engine oil in there as well. Is this going to cause any damage? Also, is it okay to use a combination of synthetic, semisynthetic, and regular oil mixed together? What will happen? I called Piaggio the company that make the engines for the Vespa and spoke with one of their engineers about the oil to use in their engines and the bottom line was a Full Synthetic Motor Cycle or Scooter Oil but never any kind of Automotive Oil. 5-40 is recommended but 10-40 will be fine unless you are riding in an area where sub-freezing temperatures are expected. I asked them why use wet clutch motorcyle oil in a dry clutch cvt bike and the answer is that the motorcycle oil has other properties aside from the wet clutch additives that make it more suitable to their dry sump engines than an automotive grade oil such as anti-foaming properties, resistance to coaking from hot spots, higher rpm film resistance and more. We are headed toward the cooler months of the year so you really do not want to run a 20 base weight anyway and take a chance on blowing that expensive Carter Oil Pump that Piaggio puts into the Vespa 250 anyway. The oil pump and its drive are behind the variator with one end of the drive chain behind a large round timing cover thats over the variator shaft. |
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Post by skuttadawg on Nov 2, 2013 22:19:55 GMT -5
Unsure if diff viscosities would mix or separate . Diff oil companies use diff detergents and other additives so mixing can be bad and not suggested . You should be fine with any automotive oil as scooters do not hit high RPMs like a crotch rocket does , which for those I would use a motorcycle oil like Motul or Bel Ray since of the higher RPMs . I was amazed after I first read about mixing boric acid with engine oil as there is lots of info all over the internet on it even at www.epa.gov ( it was unsure if still is there ) . I read where some mixed BA with a full synthetic oil on a wet starter clucth like I have it and it would slip rather than engage . Even my scooter dealer had to drain it after doing this since it would not start . I used Castrol Synblend instead of a full synthetic but I let it get hot before and after doing this and had no problems . It seem to idle quieter . When I was young I had a Geo Metro that called for 10 w30 . Since it had lots of miles I used 10w40 no problems . I tried 20w50 and it hurt my MPG as was too thick for the oil pump and the oil passages . Drained it and put in 10w40 and it was good again . Older cars used 10w40 , then many went to 10w30 as clearances got smaller . Many new cars use 5w20 . BMW and Mercedes us 20w50 since the oil passages are bigger than most other cars . I serviced a Porsche 911 Turbo that also used 20w50 and was oil cooled with a huge oil cooler ( they later went LC with antifreeze ) and it is the only car I know that you check the oil level with the engine at idle . www.cyclegear.com has a great selection oils but expect to pay extra for Motul |
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Post by pmatulew on Nov 3, 2013 12:38:24 GMT -5
I used to have an Alfa that called for 20W-50. But then again it had a deep sump and used 8 quarts at a time.
Aaaah. I still miss that sweet music.
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Post by prodigit on Nov 3, 2013 17:20:39 GMT -5
About the additives used in oil, they are not a problem. Most oils have similar amounts of similar additives, no additives are canceling each other out, or affecting each other's behavior.
Is like doing dishes with 2 different types of dishsoap, or laundry with 2 different types of laundry soap. It'll still work well.
About the mixing, it takes a LONG time for oil to settle (heavy on the bottom, light on the top) once they have been mixed.
However, as soon as the engine goes into motion, the oil gets stirred, and since it's oil with oil mixed, they will bond on a molecular level; so you will have no real problems with lighter oils layering on top of heavier ones, for more than perhaps 10-15 seconds at engine startup; which really only helps a better startup if the effect was there.
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Post by rockynv on Nov 4, 2013 5:06:16 GMT -5
Remember that we are talking about bike motors here and ones running at a more severe service level than automotive. The bike engineers will tell you the oils should not be mixed so as not to take a chance on upsetting the anti-foaming and anti-coking properties of the oils.
The OP has a 250cc Vespa which is a very finely made high compression 250 with very specific lubricant needs due to its design. Use exactly what grade and type oil the engineers specify on that bike without mixing type or brands and you can see many years of trouble free service from it. The Piaggio 250 depending on the model year and level or refinement can have a 3,000 to 6,000 + mile service schedule for oil and filter changes if you put in the specified motorcycle lubricant.
Also at 6,000 miles replace the air filter on the bike and do not attempt to skimp by trying to wash it. The foam filters can fail after that mileage and get partially ingested by the bike along with any dirt they have accumulated. Be sure to lightly oil the foam element too being careful not to over saturate it with oil.
The Vespa GTS has been upped to a 300 and currently lists for $6,199. Why mess around with Franken-Mixes of oil taking a chance on a very costly repair? Us exactly what is specified and get the 50,000 + miles of service from the bike that you paid for.
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Post by prodigit on Nov 4, 2013 13:06:26 GMT -5
I don't know about the vespa, but on any chinese scooter, and motorcycle I haven't had any adverse effects on mixing oils.
Not even on my Honda Shadow VT750
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Post by rockynv on Nov 5, 2013 5:04:48 GMT -5
I don't know about the vespa, but on any chinese scooter, and motorcycle I haven't had any adverse effects on mixing oils. Not even on my Honda Shadow VT750 That is that you are currently aware of. You may not even recognize if you do have an oil related issue due to mixing types that don't compliment the engine in your bike. Cam lobes wore out at 50,000 miles instead of 75,000 or better and one may attribute that to a soft cam while on a Chinese scooter well it would most likely be attrubuted to the poor quaility materials a particular importer specified when they orderd the lot or some other gremlin. On the Vespa and other Piaggio engined bikes you are talking about engines that are designed and spec'd out by a company that are also aircraft designers. The engines are generally much higher output in stock configuration than most GY6 equivalents of the same displacement so choice of oil grade and type becomes more critical. Most Piaggio engines will be delivered by the dealer with a synthetic motorcycle oil in them from day one anyway. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Nov 5, 2013 7:52:16 GMT -5
I don't remember who it was, but one of the guys PMed me on the old ScootDawg when I mentioned once that I didn't think I belonged 'cause I know nothing about mechanicking and didn't have a China-scoot. Besides telling me none of that mattered, he also told me he would never work on a Piaggio engine in his garage 'cause their specs are so precise and his garage is a typical home garage with dirt and stuff. I would imagine if the specs are that precise, then it really does matter about the oil. >'Kat, giving her blonde non-mech view on this  |
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
