|
|
Post by Jarlaxle on Oct 22, 2013 9:18:26 GMT -5
So, you'll let the next poor sap ride out with no brakes, then?!
|
|
|
|
Post by RapidJim on Oct 22, 2013 9:33:45 GMT -5
You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!
More importantly, having spoken to the owner, they've decided "they couldn't possibly be at fault" and the bike magically stopped stopping. More specifically, they've decided "We didn't test the scooter when it came in, how do we know the brakes even worked when you brought it in? We can't be rebuilding people's broken bikes for free."
They didn't test the scooter when it came in, how did they get it into the shop? Even if they pushed it in, it is human nature to use the brake to stop it from rolling. Oviously, you road the scooter to the shop, how did you stop in their parking lot if you didn't have brakes when you brought it in?
This sounds all to much like a VERY BAD PLACE. Being in business for as long as I have, I know that when you return a vehicle to the owner, Wisconsin State Law and other States I have worked in, require the vehicle to be in the same shape or better than it was when it came in. Also, things do happen when working on vehicles that are not expected, interuptions are the main cause of something being forgotten. When we repair anything, it is driven or ridden to make sure all is in working order. A good shop would take care of the issue and take care of their customer. . IMO, what they did to you is a CRIMINAL ACT. They put your life at risk and I, for one, would not stand for that. You did the right thing by going back and trying to be nice, which didn't work. I would now take it one step farther and explain to them the facts and let them know that either they stand behind what they did and fix it or they will answer to the court system or the State.
Good Luck to you
Jim
|
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Oct 22, 2013 12:18:00 GMT -5
I'm different I guess I would just fix the bike instead of using all my time trying to get the guys. This is why I do my own work. Lean from it all and move on They will continue to do this to others, potentially a friend or relative or maybe a stranger that you will meet because his brakes failed and he ran into you. |
|
|
|
Post by scootnwinn on Oct 22, 2013 14:37:03 GMT -5
So, you'll let the next poor sap ride out with no brakes, then?! No I said he should fix them himself. I'm different I guess I would just fix the bike instead of using all my time trying to get the guys. This is why I do my own work. Lean from it all and move on They will continue to do this to others, potentially a friend or relative or maybe a stranger that you will meet because his brakes failed and he ran into you. We don't know that anyone did anything to anybody? Or rather who did it. This wouldn't be the first time Chinese brakes failed unexpectedly and for no apparent reason. It very well could be a coincidence. No one here knows. It will likely cost more than the bike is worth to prove that the guys did it and generally just leave a sour taste in your mouth and be a total waste of time. In order to prove it was them you would have to leave your bike broken and wait for a resolution. No thanks. I am not responsible for ensuring that people do their jobs well. I am under no obligation to inspect anything I am not paid to inspect or to police anyone. This guy shopped around for a place to do his tires, he asks if $200 is fair and we say yes pretty close to right. Then he finds the shop that failed who say they will do it for 1/3 of what it should cost. Go figure they screw it up. I am not surprised at all. Why you would let uncertified techs touch your bike is beyond me. If they were certified I would have to wonder why they are asking so little. Despite some comments here on the forum it takes more than 1 minute to change a tire. It is actually a good idea to not do it too quickly or well this thread is all about the or isn't it. Buyer beware if you get quotes from 2 shops with similar pricing and a 3rd wants less than half what the others did run away from that low ball shop. If I receive poor service somewhere I let my friends and family know and won't return. I have no other obligations and no time deal with things like this. I would have never let those guys touch my bike I hope we all learned something here. |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 31 
Likes: 1
Joined: Oct 9, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -5
|
Post by dirkgently on Oct 22, 2013 15:13:18 GMT -5
I'm not generally one to be contradictory and I agree with some of your points, but just to clarify some things: If I receive poor service somewhere I let my friends and family know and won't return. I have no other obligations and no time deal with things like this. I would have never let those guys touch my bike I hope we all learned something here. Technically, only you said $200+ was a fair price. You said it was a good deal because $200 was the lowest price you had gotten for your scooter's tire change in your area. The other responses to my question fell into 2 categories: 1) That's crazy money. Go somewhere else 2) Yeah, changing tires can be hard if you don't have the right tools. You'll note that neither of those responses actually stated that 200 was fair money for a shop (who presumably has the proper tools) to do the work. I also commented that I checked the preferred installer list gave a maximum ride in price as ~$100 - less than half my original quote. It's not unreasonable to believe that $200 is a might bit high given that data. Hence, it sounded like $60 was probably not unreasonable for a small shop a few blocks from my house. I am in complete agreement with you that certified techs are important. If I was having an engine rebuilt, transmission work - something of that nature I would certainly insist on it. However, I considered a tire change to be well within the bounds of anyone with the appropriate tools and some experience. Much like I am not too fussed about getting an oil change from the Jiffy Lube guy during the winter - I wasn't worried about what I gather should be (with the right tools) a fairly simple process. I don't expect the guys who change my car tires to be certified mechanics and I suspect  % of the people at any given tire shop are not.
Though I will grant you that motorcycles may be a special case. I agree that it's a possibility that there was a catastrophic coincidental failure. Chinese stuff, you know? However, I tend to think that given: only 400 KM on the clock, excellent working dual disk brakes upon arrival and little to no brakes when picked up is probably not unrelated to the work done on the wheels. You could be right. It could just be bad luck. However, I think it's not unreasonable to suspect the shop did something. Now, I don't think it's worth spending money on the complaint. I don't think it's worth a ton of my time. I think it's certainly worth a quick note on the BBB an an occasional online review. After all, I had time to write this. I suppose I have time to write other things, right? Just felt like I wasn't being quite the naive child you making me out to be is all.
|
|
|
|
Post by scootnwinn on Oct 22, 2013 15:24:06 GMT -5
I was only saying the cheapest isn't always the best. I'm with you on car tires and such but you don't have to mess with the brakes on a car when changing tires. I think it is more important to have a certified techs on the tires than the engine etc. A poorly built engine will leave you walking but is no where near as likely to kill you as incorrectly installed wheels. I wasn't implying you were naive necessarily and apologize if you felt attacked, I was more responding to the lynch mob forming around the guy's shop...(figuratively speaking of course) Anyway I think your plan is far more reasonable than sicking the attorney general on the guy. We have seen guys on here with completely blown motors at 400 km so total brake failure is not unreasonable by the way... Hope things work out for you
|
|
|
|
Post by sailracer on Oct 22, 2013 16:32:20 GMT -5
When i've removed my calipers front or back. I undo the 2 bolts holding the caliper on the swingarm or the fork. I NEVER REMOVE THE PADS. You don't have to. calipers and pads come out as one assembly if you do it right. It sounds to me like whoever removed the tires probably disconnected the brake lines from the calipers before removal and then put it back together without bleeding the brakes. AN AMATEUR!. Before you get all worked up (emotionally,) try changing the fluid and bleeding the brakes.It takes, by the way, more than 15 minutes to change a rear tire with dual shocks and disc brakes. You need to remove the exhaust, shock swingarm and caliper-then remove the wheel and change the tire. You then have to re-assemble the whole thing. It IS a lot of labor!The shop deserves to be blackballed- even if you have to put up a do not deal with ---- post on scooter forums. At least to warn future victims of his butchery.
|
|
|
|
Post by pmatulew on Oct 22, 2013 17:52:41 GMT -5
Don't let Scootnwinn's strong opinions bother you. He's like that with everybody. I even agree with what he says sometimes.
Your dealings with this particular shop are water under the bridge. You gave the mechanic a second chance and he either couldn't or wouldn't make it right. I wouldn't trust him to operate a light switch at this point. His reputation has gone down in flames and I'm sure you'll let everyone in the area know about it. In no time at all he'll be out of business and can go back to whatever it was he was doing last week. (Sidewalk sandwich board? Bagging groceries?)
Time to get on with fixing the brakes and scrubbing in those new tires.
Sailracer may be on to something in that disconnecting the brake line may have been the expedient way to remove the swing arm. Maybe the lines just need to be bled properly.
Not sure about the front. I don't have to touch the front calipers. The wheel just slides right out.
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 31
Likes: 1
Joined: Oct 9, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -5
|
Post by dirkgently on Oct 22, 2013 18:36:48 GMT -5
Sailracer may be on to something in that disconnecting the brake line may have been the expedient way to remove the swing arm. Maybe the lines just need to be bled properly. Funny enough, when I brought the scoot back to the shop with the brake problem they took it back and claim to have bled the brakes in an attempt to solve the problem. I did actually give bleeding them myself a try when I got home today. Rear brake fluid was filled with dirt. So, who knows if they filled the lines with dirty fluid or if it was dirty from China. Couldn't pay me to go back there. Well... I suppose enough money would mean I could add a Ferrari to the garage....  |
|
|
|
Post by sailracer on Oct 22, 2013 18:54:48 GMT -5
try replacing the fluid. There is a good thread on that somewhere in here along with a video. Alleyoop, where are you?
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 31
Likes: 1
Joined: Oct 9, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -5
|
Post by dirkgently on Oct 22, 2013 19:00:33 GMT -5
try replacing the fluid. There is a good thread on that somewhere in here along with a video. Alleyoop, where are you? I think I got it pretty well flushed out. Though, I wish I had an electric pump so I could push more fluid through to make sure it knocked all that crud out. It's much cleaner now. Sadly, it's 40 degrees and raining. Maybe tomorrow i can take it around the block and see if I have some more pressure now. |
|
|
|
Post by SylvreKat on Oct 22, 2013 19:13:23 GMT -5
So, you'll let the next poor sap ride out with no brakes, then?! No I said he should fix them himself. And how about me, scootn'? What if I was the one who'd gone there for a new tire and they did whatever to my brakes. I'm not that experienced a rider--would the sudden complete and utter failure of my brakes have made me crash? Would it have injured me? Killed me? And then I go back, only to be told in a roundabout way that I'm the liar and the one being deceitful, that I'm trying to get new brakes when my bike was brake-defective before I brought it in. And oh yeah, go away we won't fix them. And then you come along and tell me to fix them myself. Assuming I wasn't killed, that is. With what, pray tell? My Mom's screwdriver set and our little picture-hanging hammer? Maybe the little hatchet we use for making ice cream? My wagon's tire iron? THAT is why I said to contact the DA. Because if this shop pulls this crap on someone like me, they could hurt or kill that rider. Or leave her stranded because she lacks the knowledge, skills, and tools to fix it herself. Dirk, after you write that BBB note, look into contacting the DA. Maybe it's as simple as writing or calling in a complaint, then sending in some proof--photos, receipt, etc. I can vouch from witnessing, a call from someone like the AG or DA gets the owner's attention real fast! >'Kat, glad her friends pointed her to honest car and bike mechanics! |
|
|
|
Post by sailracer on Oct 22, 2013 19:15:48 GMT -5
I wish I could find that post. I looked, but to no avail. It involves using a big syringe( like a turkey baster, and you force it in backwards through the bleeder screw. You need to open the master culinder, and remove the fluid with a paper towel- and force the fluid( a little at a time) through the system Periodically soaking up the dirty fluid from the master until it runs clean. It's a pretty neat way to replace all the fluid.
|
|
|
|
Post by sailracer on Oct 22, 2013 19:37:01 GMT -5
I found this:
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 31
Likes: 1
Joined: Oct 9, 2013 10:56:33 GMT -5
|
Post by dirkgently on Oct 22, 2013 19:46:11 GMT -5
Maybe the little hatchet we use for making ice cream? That might be the most hardcore thing I've ever heard... |
|
% of the people at any given tire shop are not. 
jet
