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Post by ltdhpp on Oct 16, 2013 17:55:02 GMT -5
It takes less than a minute to remove a front scooter wheel, and any cycle shop should be able to swap any tubeless scooter tire on a wheel in about 5 minutes. On a 50cc or 150cc with no swing arm and drum brakes, it should take no more than 5 minutes to pull a rear wheel. With a rear swing arm, maybe up to 15 minutes depending how complex it is.
Yet, mounting any small tire on a wheel can be the most difficult thing you've ever done in your life if you don't have nice equipment to use.
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Post by urbanmadness on Oct 16, 2013 19:07:46 GMT -5
My rear tire was 135 installed with a new valve stem and it's a 150 cc short case mono shock, so 200 for both isn't way out of line. 135 I thought was a little pricey but then I do all the work on my scoot usually. I was just in a bind 'cause I had a blow out and it was on the back of a tow truck. I put a Kendra on it as well, instead of a cheaper chinese tire, not the Kendra is as good as a michelin or anything, but it was the best they had in stock in my size and it was way better then the tire that came on the scoot.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 16, 2013 22:27:27 GMT -5
That is code for we do not want to be resposible for installing tires of questionable origin or quality.
The local Aprilia dealer charges reasonable prices for their tires and will not play the tire game any more.
Instead of charging more if you provide the tires they just simply refuse to install any tire that you did not purchase there from fresh inventory.
If the tire they ordered is too old, has the wrong speed rating, is deformed, etc they will just call their supplier who will send out the right tire to them express at no additional charge while people who bring in old, questionable, under-rated or otherwise unacceptable tires generally argue to get them installed anyway and then when they have problems insist that the dealer perform further service on those tires at no charge.
Cycle Gear will install your tires for $25 if you buy them there and $35 if you bring your own. You have to take the rim off the bike and bring it to them. They will refuse to install a tire that does not meet the bikes speed rating and will refuse to mount tires that are over a certain age or too beat up.
How easy is it to remove and replace the rim on a bike depends a lot on the bike. The old style Vespa and Buddy are pretty simple and go on and off with lug nuts like an automobile while many have levered front suspensions that require a lot of juggling to get them apart and then back together. The you have to deal with the brake calipers, aligning everything and getting it back together without damaging the speedometer drive. The back rim on some is pretty straight forward while other require an hour or so of work removing rear suspension, exhausts, brake calipers, speedometer pickups and swing arms extenstions.
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Post by dirkgently on Oct 17, 2013 18:03:42 GMT -5
Hmmm... maybe I'm being punished for not spending the 200+. Picked up the scoot after work tonight, and it does look faboo with the new whitewalls. Sadly, I got a great look at the expense of no longer having brakes. Not sure how you lose brakes while changing tires, but it's fun to have a new challenge I suppose.
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Post by SylvreKat on Oct 17, 2013 21:32:24 GMT -5
Let me get this straight in my mind.
You took your bike to a shop to have the tires replaced. Correct? They did this work for something rather less than the original dealer's quoted $200. Correct? You picked up your bike, happy with new tires. Except the shop didn't bother to reinstall the brakes after installing the new tires. Correct?
I'm sorry, but if you haven't already contacted the shop insisting on them putting the brakes back on, then you'd better be planning on doing that first thing tom morn. That's ridiculous. That would be like my car mech replaced my springs (whatever those things are called) but didn't bother to put the tires back on. Or my dry cleaner cleaned my jacket but didn't worry about they'd removed all the buttons. Or my body-shop wouldn't fix the front end damage from some doof backing into my car at their shop (real story, that, except he DID fix the new damage)
My point being, that shop is responsible for returning your bike to you in its original condition, plus whatever changes/fixes/improvements you paid them to do. It most certainly is NOT good with removing parts and not putting said parts back on.
Go get 'em, tiger!
>'Kat
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Post by scootnwinn on Oct 18, 2013 0:55:55 GMT -5
Take it back you paid them to replace the tires. Resetting the brakes and making sure they work is part of the job. A real shop would have test ridden the bike and scrubbed a bit of the new off the tires...
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Post by rockynv on Oct 18, 2013 8:19:15 GMT -5
Hmmm... maybe I'm being punished for not spending the 200+. Picked up the scoot after work tonight, and it does look faboo with the new whitewalls. Sadly, I got a great look at the expense of no longer having brakes. Not sure how you lose brakes while changing tires, but it's fun to have a new challenge I suppose. Forgetting to install the brake pads is one way. A bike shop also charges higher rates because they will have a certified mechanic who has some verified credentials attesting to his knowlege and ability to work on motorbikes while a cut rate shop may have just about any base wage kid who got tired of cleaning tables at McDonalds doing the work. When you roll the dice and gamble you do unfortunately risk having these types of problems. Moving forward is the shop that changed the tires for you capable of repairing the brakes? If they forgot to put the brake pads back then you could be looking at getting new calipers now since the pistons many times will over-extend damaging the seals and boots in the process if you squeezed the brake levers while they were missing. Play nice and let them want to help you because you are so pleasant to deal with.
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Post by dirkgently on Oct 18, 2013 10:03:18 GMT -5
Have no fear, I took it back within about 20 minutes. The drive back to the house (which is happily very short) showed off the truly minimal brakes. They're looking at it now I presume. I tend to think RockyNV is correct and that the pads weren't re-installed. And I fervently hope the pistons/rotors aren't buggered. The awesome brakes were one of the great parts about this scooter. Shame they mucked them up, I really wanted to ride into work this morning. I'm being a very friendly soul about it - hopefully it means everything gets put back together properly. There was a LOT of "Don't see how we could have done it, we didn't touch the brakes" "If it was us, we'll definitely fix it for free, but it can't have been us" going on. So.... this may be a process, especially since I can't stand over them all day and point out "see, you didn't do X. That's why I have no brakes." Obviously, it must have been them. I mean it worked like a charm 24 hours ago. Hopefully convincing them of that won't be too difficult.
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Post by rockynv on Oct 18, 2013 15:22:54 GMT -5
They had to remove the brake calipers and pads in order to change the front tire and the same is true of the rear disk brakes. On rear drums they have to release the cable adjuster and then readjust it after they put the wheel back on or the actuation cam will skip past is fullcrum and no longer engage the shoes.
Regardless of the problem they had to remove and reinstall brake components in order to change the tires.
Continue to be nice, as humans do make mistakes, but still be firm in that you need them to work through this and get it fixed even if they have to pay a bike shop with a certified mechanic to do the repairs.
Was this a bike shop or just a tire shop?
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Post by SylvreKat on Oct 18, 2013 22:23:19 GMT -5
Being nice and friendly and polite, yet firm, truly is the best approach. Until they turn stupid or mean or non-approachable. Then you get tough.
I've worked retail for many many years. Trust me when I say the nice customers get a lot more help than the nasty ones. We'll fix whatever might be wrong for the nasties, but the nice ones will get extras, or a bigger discount, or some other perk 'cause they were nice and not being butts about a mistake.
>'Kat
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Post by dirkgently on Oct 21, 2013 9:31:16 GMT -5
Sadly, the place which did the work (an actual scooter store) has decided they don't know what's wrong. More importantly, having spoken to the owner, they've decided "they couldn't possibly be at fault" and the bike magically stopped stopping. More specifically, they've decided "We didn't test the scooter when it came in, how do we know the brakes even worked when you brought it in? We can't be rebuilding people's broken bikes for free."
So, they refuse to repair anything or investigate further without being paid - which clearly I won't be doing. After considering burning the business to the ground as a lesson in customer service, I've opted to take the high road and just figure out what's wrong with it. Brakes aren't really complicated things, it must be something not too complex. Hopefully I find what's wrong quickly.
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Post by Jarlaxle on Oct 21, 2013 19:55:45 GMT -5
Call the state AG's office! Do this RIGHT NOW! The shop KNOWINGLY put you on the road on an unsafe vehicle and needs to be shut down!
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Post by rockynv on Oct 21, 2013 22:22:32 GMT -5
They should have checked the brakes when they took the bike in for service and noted any pre-existing damages and should have noted the problem with the brakes before they even started changing the tires and informed you of any issues. After they put the new tires on since they had to remove parts of both the front and rear brakes they were obligated to confirm the correct function of the braking systems that they had reassembled. They were negligent from the moment you handed them the keys. The AG, State Attorney or the Lieutenant Governors Consumer Affairs Office depending on your State should be contacted immediately.
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Post by SylvreKat on Oct 22, 2013 6:38:09 GMT -5
Add me to the list. Contact the DA or whoever in your state takes care of this sort of garbage. Also contact the BBB and check if they're listed, and make a report.
They are acting criminally and need to be stopped. What if someone like me had these guys work on her bike? I could be dead from their negligence.
Do NOT roll over on this.
>'Kat
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Post by scootnwinn on Oct 22, 2013 6:49:11 GMT -5
I'm different I guess I would just fix the bike instead of using all my time trying to get the guys. This is why I do my own work. Lean from it all and move on
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