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Post by w650 on Jul 25, 2017 16:54:15 GMT -5
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Post by fugaziiv on Jul 26, 2017 8:54:51 GMT -5
Vespa just celebrated their 70th anniversary. Yet in all that time they haven't moved scooters to the mainstream in America. It would seem that the Chinese with their cheap 50cc scoots have become a presence. Well, yes and no. To a certain subset of the domestic scooter market Vespa IS scooters. Period. Vespa (and by extension Piaggio) absolutely owns the over 150cc market in the US. They may not sell the most, but they dominate mindshare for this consumer. This being said, Chinese, Taiwanese and Japanese 50s - 150s ARE scooters to everyone else. Unless of course you ride a Ruckus. That's a whole different ballgame. It's entirely non-traditional. At least this is what my metrics tell me. The takeaway though is that moving scooters to the mainstream the way that they are in other countries is a Herculean task that no one OEM will be able to shoulder. Pinning that on Vespa simply isn't fair. Heck, Piaggio left the country for a decade + at one point as the environment wasn't remotely tenable. While riding a scooter is awesome, it's not very 'Murica. Unless someone figures out that part of the equation, or time changes perception, they will remain fringe here in the US... no matter how smart we all know they are. Matt |
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Post by w650 on Jul 26, 2017 18:20:57 GMT -5
Heck, Piaggio left the country for a decade + at one point as the environment wasn't remotely tenable. Longer than that. Bankruptcy of Vespa's American importer due to two expensive product-liability lawsuits, increased competition from Japanese manufacturers, and certain states' passing so-called "green laws" caused a withdrawal from the US market in late 1981.
During 1981-2001, despite an absence of United States domestic sales, Vespas continued to have a core group of enthusiasts who kept vintage scooters on the road by rebuilding, restoring, and adding performance-enhancing engine parts as the stock parts would wear out.
Vespa returned to the US market in 2001 with a new, more modern style ET series, in 50 cc two and four stroke, and 150 cc four-stroke
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VespaI don't see how scooters will sell when they're anonymous. I see Harley and Indian ads all over NASCAR. There are enough small networks all over the thousand channels that something should be affordable to advertise. Kymco advertised in Cycle World magazine for a year or so. I see pop up ads for Powersportsmax all the time on my computers, of all things. Occasionally Parts for Scooters too. I'm betting that the Chinese prosper from rentals in Tourist Cities causing people to think about buying one when they get home. Connecticut is crawling with 50cc scooters from the dealers there.
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Post by cyborg55 on Jul 27, 2017 8:42:09 GMT -5
Man that thing is a drone,,and uglier than I am,,,, |
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The PartsForScooters Guy
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Post by fugaziiv on Jul 27, 2017 10:42:11 GMT -5
Heck, Piaggio left the country for a decade + at one point as the environment wasn't remotely tenable. Longer than that. Bankruptcy of Vespa's American importer due to two expensive product-liability lawsuits, increased competition from Japanese manufacturers, and certain states' passing so-called "green laws" caused a withdrawal from the US market in late 1981.
During 1981-2001, despite an absence of United States domestic sales, Vespas continued to have a core group of enthusiasts who kept vintage scooters on the road by rebuilding, restoring, and adding performance-enhancing engine parts as the stock parts would wear out.
Vespa returned to the US market in 2001 with a new, more modern style ET series, in 50 cc two and four stroke, and 150 cc four-stroke
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VespaI don't see how scooters will sell when they're anonymous. I see Harley and Indian ads all over NASCAR. There are enough small networks all over the thousand channels that something should be affordable to advertise. Kymco advertised in Cycle World magazine for a year or so. I see pop up ads for Powersportsmax all the time on my computers, of all things. Occasionally Parts for Scooters too. I'm betting that the Chinese prosper from rentals in Tourist Cities causing people to think about buying one when they get home. Connecticut is crawling with 50cc scooters from the dealers there. Lol, yeah, I didn't check the dates before I posted. I also didn't know about the product liability lawsuits, I might look into those as that is some interesting stuff. I do know my PX is actually an early 80's grey market import from Canada after Piaggio left. I agree that scoots won't take over being anonymous either, but the industry is moving away from that anyway. I'm just saying that pinning the success of an entire market on one admittedly premium brand (which in the scooter market is a dichotomy unto itself) isn't realistic either. A confluence of quality branded and supported product paired with a sea change in consumer perception is what the US domestic market requires. I'm trying to do my part by creating a reliable, recognizable and trustworthy parts and accessories source for the market. It is unfortunately but one piece of the puzzle. I will add that China is working hard to undo everything I've been building. This market has never been easy here. Matt |
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Post by w650 on Jul 27, 2017 14:08:58 GMT -5
I'm trying to do my part by creating a reliable, recognizable and trustworthy parts and accessories source for the market.
I always tell people about my transmission shaft for the Fashion when I talk about you guys Matt. Ordered at Noon Tuesday and in my hot little hands by Ten A.M. Thursday. I don't know what China can do about that. Certainly not top it.
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Post by w650 on Jul 27, 2017 18:30:12 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Jul 29, 2017 19:04:42 GMT -5
I'm just saying that pinning the success of an entire market on one admittedly premium brand (which in the scooter market is a dichotomy unto itself) isn't realistic either.
Two words Matt-Harley Davidson. In 1980 Harley sold 83,000 bikes. Today it's around 250,000. Along the way they created the Cruiser market for other manufacturers to take advantage of and made S&S and JP Cycles rich.
I know that's not the way Piaggio does things, but hey, they don't even sell at the top of their genre in Italy. Honda Italy outsells them at the top of the standings with the SH-300 the last I've checked.
I don't know what the answer is but I do know that as long as Dealers and Distributors don't advertise scooters they will never achieve market penetration in this market.
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Post by spandi on Jul 29, 2017 23:08:33 GMT -5
Heck, Piaggio left the country for a decade + at one point as the environment wasn't remotely tenable. Longer than that. Bankruptcy of Vespa's American importer due to two expensive product-liability lawsuits, increased competition from Japanese manufacturers, and certain states' passing so-called "green laws" caused a withdrawal from the US market in late 1981.
During 1981-2001, despite an absence of United States domestic sales, Vespas continued to have a core group of enthusiasts who kept vintage scooters on the road by rebuilding, restoring, and adding performance-enhancing engine parts as the stock parts would wear out.
Vespa returned to the US market in 2001 with a new, more modern style ET series, in 50 cc two and four stroke, and 150 cc four-stroke
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VespaI don't see how scooters will sell when they're anonymous. I see Harley and Indian ads all over NASCAR. There are enough small networks all over the thousand channels that something should be affordable to advertise. Kymco advertised in Cycle World magazine for a year or so. I see pop up ads for Powersportsmax all the time on my computers, of all things. Occasionally Parts for Scooters too. I'm betting that the Chinese prosper from rentals in Tourist Cities causing people to think about buying one when they get home. Connecticut is crawling with 50cc scooters from the dealers there. Which is why I ended up with a 125 Elite in 1984. But I still think Vespa's are way overpriced, in the 1960's you could buy one for about the same price (adjusted for inflation.) As today's Kymco. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 1, 2017 8:46:52 GMT -5
Which is why I ended up with a 125 Elite in 1984. But I still think Vespa's are way overpriced, in the 1960's you could buy one for about the same price (adjusted for inflation.) As today's Kymco.
I have to agree with the price issue. Particularly Vespa scoots are VERY expensive, even the smallest displacement models. At least brand-new ones. On the other hand, some members here have found EXTREMELY good deals on new Italian scoots of other makes. The BIG equalizer in price (at least in my area) is in clean, minty USED Italian scoots. When I settled on my old Kymco Grandvista 250 3 years ago, I looked at every type of used scooter I could find. And, I found NUMEROUS mint, low-miles Vespa, Piaggio and such Italian scoots in the same price-range as the used Taiwanese rides like Kymco and SYM. If you have your heart set on a NEW Vespa, it's going to be pricey. If you're willing to go with a clean USED ride, the Vespa may well be no more expensive than bikes from Taiwan, and certainly no more expensive than those from Japan.
All this mumbo-jumbo does NOT help the scooter cause... LOL!To get a bargain on an Italian ride, you have to really do your homework, and search. But you can get a Taiwan-made scoot off the floor for much less. And I suspect they are about equal in build-quality, though the Vespa does offer aircraft-style aluminum unit construction. That apparently is the major reason for their high initial price. Fortunately for used buyers, it doesn't translate into resale value.All-in-all, America just doesn't seem ready to embrace the scooter to the extent of our fellow riders in other nations... Especially when you can now get a NEW Harley 500/750 or Indian Scout V-twin for around $10K or LESS.
Yanks just can't resist that V-twin look, sound and pride-of-ownership. Nope...  As for me? At 70, and full of arthritis, I've had plenty of big twins and am more than happy with a SCOOTER... Yup! |
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Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
The PartsForScooters Guy
Posts: 211
Likes: 15
Joined: Feb 25, 2013 14:44:11 GMT -5
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Post by fugaziiv on Aug 1, 2017 9:05:22 GMT -5
I'm trying to do my part by creating a reliable, recognizable and trustworthy parts and accessories source for the market.
I always tell people about my transmission shaft for the Fashion when I talk about you guys Matt. Ordered at Noon Tuesday and in my hot little hands by Ten A.M. Thursday. I don't know what China can do about that. Certainly not top it. I appreciate this. Greatly. Matt |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Aug 1, 2017 13:38:26 GMT -5
Which is why I ended up with a 125 Elite in 1984. But I still think Vespa's are way overpriced, in the 1960's you could buy one for about the same price (adjusted for inflation.) As today's Kymco.
I have to agree with the price issue. Particularly Vespa scoots are VERY expensive, even the smallest displacement models. At least brand-new ones. On the other hand, some members here have found EXTREMELY good deals on new Italian scoots of other makes. The BIG equalizer in price (at least in my area) is in clean, minty USED Italian scoots. When I settled on my old Kymco Grandvista 250 3 years ago, I looked at every type of used scooter I could find. And, I found NUMEROUS mint, low-miles Vespa, Piaggio and such Italian scoots in the same price-range as the used Taiwanese rides like Kymco and SYM. If you have your heart set on a NEW Vespa, it's going to be pricey. If you're willing to go with a clean USED ride, the Vespa may well be no more expensive than bikes from Taiwan, and certainly no more expensive than those from Japan.
All this mumbo-jumbo does NOT help the scooter cause... LOL!To get a bargain on an Italian ride, you have to really do your homework, and search. But you can get a Taiwan-made scoot off the floor for much less. And I suspect they are about equal in build-quality, though the Vespa does offer aircraft-style aluminum unit construction. That apparently is the major reason for their high initial price. Fortunately for used buyers, it doesn't translate into resale value.All-in-all, America just doesn't seem ready to embrace the scooter to the extent of our fellow riders in other nations... Especially when you can now get a NEW Harley 500/750 or Indian Scout V-twin for around $10K or LESS.
Yanks just can't resist that V-twin look, sound and pride-of-ownership. Nope... As for me? At 70, and full of arthritis, I've had plenty of big twins and am more than happy with a SCOOTER... Yup! I think a new Sportster 1200 stickers for about 10K. |
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Post by w650 on Aug 1, 2017 15:11:19 GMT -5
Again, I'm only taking exception to the "Lower cost of maintenance". I have two scooters and three motorcycles and I don't see it that way. If I could only have one and needed to rely on it daily I would have a hard time going with a scooter.
The joy of old age is cheap insurance so a few spares is easy to swallow.
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Post by pistonguy on Aug 1, 2017 15:58:28 GMT -5
A 562 Pound Pile of a Sorry Excuse for a Two Wheeled Vehicle Wussy ride. As uninspiring as riding my couch. And A Corporate Idiot actually is going to try to Market these in the US? they would be on the sidewalk with a cardboard sign if they were that clueless to the Merkin Market and worked for me. Who would be seen on that pile in the US? And there again some actually purchase a CUBE for a four well vehicle. I suppose they would be there market a Cube for a Four Wheel vehicle and a 562 Pound Couch for a Two Wheeled Vehicle. |
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Post by spandi on Aug 1, 2017 22:04:38 GMT -5
A 562 Pound Pile of a Sorry Excuse for a Two Wheeled Vehicle Wussy ride. As uninspiring as riding my couch. And A Corporate Idiot actually is going to try to Market these in the US? they would be on the sidewalk with a cardboard sign if they were that clueless to the Merkin Market and worked for me. Who would be seen on that pile in the US? And there again some actually purchase a CUBE for a four well vehicle. I suppose they would be there market a Cube for a Four Wheel vehicle and a 562 Pound Couch for a Two Wheeled Vehicle. That to me is a automatic motorcycle rather than a scooter, and for what, roughly 12 grand when they get done with you? There is a guy that works at a local grocery store here in Palm Springs that just bought a beautiful Yamaha Bolt V-twin at almost 1000cc for a little over half the price. |
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