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Post by carasdad on Jul 28, 2015 21:09:19 GMT -5
That's a very interesting post, thanks man I had no idea. Next I will try my own variator and ramp, but not until I replace the oil seal. It is pushed in too far, could I simply pull it back into place or should I get the replacement? If it is a new oil seal..you may get by repositioning it..but seals a year or so old..tend be brittle...and are prone to leaks if tampered with.. |
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Post by carasdad on Jul 28, 2015 15:05:20 GMT -5
This will clear up lots of confusion and repeat questions! We make Scooter tuning MUCH harder that it really is. I posted this in a few other forums I belong to..and folks enjoyed it. It makes MUCH sense and really clears things up.. It is more than just clutch tuning..it goes in depth on CVT tuing etc.. www.apexatv.com/techsupport/apexclutch.pdfEnjoy,Glenn |
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Post by carasdad on Jul 28, 2015 14:55:28 GMT -5
Bingo! There is your issue.. "I was told they only changed the variator weights to 7g in the cvt" So the stock torque spring 'shifts' too soon because they are weak..and the 7 gram weights cause it to 'shift' too quickly into a higher ratio.. This puts a load on the engine..hence poor performance up hills..and slow take take off. Here is my setup and it works well. JUST a BBK and weights will not improve performance..the whole drive train system needs to be balanced to handle the extra power. here is what I use below.. 2014 TaoTao Thunder 80cc BBK 2k clutch springs 1.5k contra spring 7gram KOSO sliders with KOSO variator Performance exhaust 50-55mph(No not Kph) GPS on a level surface with my skinny butt on it  I swapped the clutch, put in mine which has 1.5k springs and new clutch pads, same outcome. The problem is it is NOT getting to high RPMs until going downhill, and ONLY when going downhill. I also tried switching the weights to 5g and to 8g, still the same issue. It is like it is stuck at low RPMs. I do not have a tach for the scooter otherwise I would give you the numbers. When revving from a stop it slowly climbs up in speed even if I try to give it full throttle. The carb main jet was #  , I decided to try fiddling with the carb too so I put i my own #  , it seemed to go slightly faster in the low end but not by much. The needle in the carb is a standard non adjustable needle. I tried installing an adjustable needle but all of the notches 1 to 5 all seemed bad so I put the nonadjustable needle back in. I adjusted the valves to 0.003. I checked and added ground wires. I replaced the spark plug, coil, cdi... Been all over this scooter except inside the engine beyond the valves.... Everything I do only makes small almost unnoticeable changes, it's still about the same as when I started. It goes about 20 on flats, 10 uphill, and 45 downhill and will not hold speed above 20 on flats even when going down a very long downhill first.. Ok..sounds like you did all the right things..but read this below. I copied it from my post in another Scoot forum.. Since that post many have discovered that even their 2-3 year old and older Scoots have the same issue.. So maybe yours does? Below is my snippet and discovery.. --->Discovered a new way they are restricting Scooters. 3 days ago a guy received his new Scoot in the crate. We put it together and I did his PDI. All looked well..with a few minor things like connectors not plugged in all the way. He rode it for 3 days (after we removed the shipping oil) He logged 118k on it and asked me why it would only do 27-28 and just at 30mph on a small slope. Carb was sealed of course so I fixed that and found a #70 main jet and a snow white fresh as new plug. When I rode it there was VERY little power and by a guess I would say the engine never reached 6k rpm. It launched ok..for about 25 feet..then the rpms and speed seemed to drop. Tried a #78 main jet and power was up a hair..but rpms still low. On the center stand it would rev easily to I would guess 9k or better.hmmm..so what was loading it down? I pulled the CVT to weigh the rollers and found 5 gram ones inside. Plenty light for a stock 50cc..yet it would not rev up under a load. THEN..I saw the rear variator pulley half.. The ramps were a whole bunch steeper than any other stock CVT I have seen. I compared it to an old stock CVT I had in the used parts bin..and sure enough..the new CVT was as different as night and day. The ramps were very steep and very short..the area on the outer edge of the pulley(I call it the roller weight stop) That area was about 1/3 taller/higher than the used stock pulley. Using the old pulley I rolled a weight to the end of its travel and it was a few mm above the rim of the pulley. Doing the same with the new stock pulley..I found travel was short and steep..and the weight was stopped from moving by the taller flat area (roller weight stop or whatever its called)In the new pulley the weight was barely even flush with the edge of the rim! I swapped in the used pulley and used the 5 gram weights his scoot came with. Speed was up 6-7 mph with a much less pronounced bog..as before when the engine would hit about 26mph and the rpms would drop...as it barely mushed along forward.. Oh and forget about even a slight incline..cause the scoot just fell on its face. It made it over the hill with the CVT it came with..but at a Turtles pace almost..lol. Then we tried a used DLH brand pulley half I had. rpms were way up and speed was now hitting 36-38mph. So I ordered him a performance variator and things will be resolved then. So if you buy..or work on somebody's new scoot..be on the lookout for this new 'restricting' type variator. I kept his and must say it makes a dandy ashtray in the shop.. 6 people can smoke at once even..because each roller weight track gives them their own personal cig holder..  Below is a pic of the OLD stock type variator and describes the changes I saw as mentioned above. I did not get a pic of the new one..but I will when we dump the cig ashes out of it tomorrow..lol. Enjoy, Glenn  |
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Post by carasdad on Jul 28, 2015 8:03:29 GMT -5
Have you checked the clutch? Maybe some aftermarket "performance" parts were installed. I was told they only changed the variator weights to 7g in the cvt Bingo! There is your issue.. "I was told they only changed the variator weights to 7g in the cvt" So the stock torque spring 'shifts' too soon because they are weak..and the 7 gram weights cause it to 'shift' too quickly into a higher ratio.. This puts a load on the engine..hence poor performance up hills..and slow take take off. Here is my setup and it works well. JUST a BBK and weights will not improve performance..the whole drive train system needs to be balanced to handle the extra power. here is what I use below.. 2014 TaoTao Thunder 80cc BBK 2k clutch springs 1.5k contra spring 7gram KOSO sliders with KOSO variator Performance exhaust 50-55mph(No not Kph) GPS on a level surface with my skinny butt on it |
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Post by carasdad on Jul 21, 2015 6:56:37 GMT -5
Running a stock exhaust? Two things I have seen on customer Scoots with 50mm BBK's. One..the exhaust is to restrictive for a 50cc engine.. Let alone all the extra flow you get from a 50mm kit. Also jetting must be right on or you run lean and hot! If using the stock head..compression is VERY high..causing excess heat. Also they prefer a spark plug in the 8 heat range vice the stock 7 range plug. Many will drill 2 holes in the exhaust to relieve excess back pressure which increases engine heat build up...
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Post by carasdad on Jul 7, 2015 6:25:57 GMT -5
As he said..a heavy aftermarket torque/contra spring will cause this to happen as well. My scoot does the same with a 2k torque spring...slightly with a 1.k torque spring..and not at all with a 1k torque spring.  ... Glenn |
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Post by carasdad on Jul 7, 2015 6:20:17 GMT -5
Sounds just like a customers Scoot when his crank bearings went. We could not wobble or move the crank..but when we ran it wit CVT cover off..we could see the variator wobble and make lots of noise. Remove CVT cover.. If it is a 4 stroke hold a small socket on the end of the starter bendix (so it won't pop out when you crank it) If it is a 2 stroke just remove the cover and start it. Look for wobble in the variator. If present ..the variator is WAY out of balance..but each time I have seen the wobble..the crank bearings were shot..  |
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Post by carasdad on Jul 4, 2015 8:30:36 GMT -5
Yup..classic symptoms of needing a valve adjustment..  |
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Post by carasdad on Jun 26, 2015 18:01:00 GMT -5
The PCV device is only a band-aid to cover the fact that all your oil loss is because you need new piston rings. That is where your blow by is coming from..that pressurizes your crankcase..causing oil to spew out the the nipple. I have seen and repaired this very issue on 6 or more customer scoots in the past few years. Glenn Holland is one of the most adorable towns on the planet! But I've always wondered what it's like when the calendar passes November .... We usually don't get snow until December..so we ride until then. Sure the temps are in the 30's then..but we get no colder on a scooter than we do our Snowmobiles. Many of us ride all winter..as long as the roads are clear. Even if it is 20 degrees out. We just bundle up and go for it..  |
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Post by carasdad on Jun 24, 2015 21:09:55 GMT -5
Th QJ engines are a 2stroke/4stroke hybrid yes. I have put 72cc BBK's on 5 for customers so far. The engine is 4T and the drive train is 2T just as you have probably already seen.
Glenn
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Post by carasdad on Jun 24, 2015 21:00:55 GMT -5
The PCV device is only a band-aid to cover the fact that all your oil loss is because you need new piston rings. That is where your blow by is coming from..that pressurizes your crankcase..causing oil to spew out the the nipple. I have seen and repaired this very issue on 6 or more customer scoots in the past few years.
Glenn
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Post by carasdad on Aug 21, 2014 20:50:25 GMT -5
Sounds classic for a bad R/R..definitely get a new one...but also check and see if your lights have a ballast resistor connected to them.. If so read how many Ohms it is rated at (it's stamped on the resistor) So if ya got one of those...check that as well.  |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 21, 2014 17:26:34 GMT -5
howdy, i guess i shouldn't feel bad about being taken to task from professionals. when i suggested jumping with a car it was only to confirm whether there was deterioration in the wiring which was lowering the voltage due to too much amperage draw for the existing wiring. anyway, you professionals know what i'm suggesting like some change in the wiring due to disconnecting and re-connecting at overhaul. lotsa miles and smiles to ya ken Ken...it's all good. My point was not about jumping from a car..I do that often when I do a roadside repair for folks that also have a bad battery they refuse to replace. My point Sir was that if compression was so high it needed a 600cca battery from a car just turn turn it over..well compression is WAY to high. Jumping a Scoot from a good running Scoot with normal compression is no issue at all. But when compression is so high that it is needed...well..that is an issue..and the issue I meant when folks jump from a 300cca lawn tractor battery or 600cca or better car battery. Glenn |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 21, 2014 8:15:02 GMT -5
yes there is way's to bring the compression down to a safe number..plus there are heavy duty starter's to crank it. plus after a break in it get's better..i done hundreds if not a thousand ported big valve heads and had maybe two or three complaints...plus my heads are use'ly for the serious builders....be safe......buford buford...exactly Sir! There are ways to bring compression down..ie on one GY6 150 BBK I used 2 extra base gaskets. Worked well. Also I hear rave reviews on your head work which will do the same. While not only decreasing compression..your heads increase flow!! So ya end up getting a 2 for 1 deal right there.. |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 20, 2014 22:13:47 GMT -5
Yes.. Your gears in the transmission. This a VERY common thing folks do when they have more displacement. Remember your scooter is designed for a 50cc engine..so you can only go as fast as the transmission gears allow. Example...you can put a turbo charger on a John Deere lawn tractor and gain an extra 20 or so horespower...but yer still only going to go about 12-15mph top. See what I am getting at? That 100cc BBK is bad news though..I have installed 9 for customers that demanded them against everyones advice but... Your crank bearings will most likely be shot at about 1,000 miles. At my shop I have yet to see one come in that didn't. The 50mm..51.5mm and 52mm pistons weigh TWICE what the stock 39mm does..and the crankshaft counterweights are not balanced for that extra weight. Reason why folks with those super huge BBK's feel more vibration from their engine. Plain and simple the rotating weights of the crankshaft are not heavy enough to offset the reciprocating (up and down) weight of the piston. This causes the engine to rotate as unbalanced... as a cheap $20.00 Ceiling Fan does..  Enjoy the very few miles you will get out of the engine if you go the 100cc route..hope it is fun while it lasts...  Glenn p.s. But as I said..yes you have more power..but you need to install a higher gear ratio in the tranny. Easy and not expensive job to do..other wise your are riding around like a car stuck in 1st gear... Here is a link to a gear set... www.ebay.com/itm/281284682913?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT |
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, I decided to try fiddling with the carb too so I put i my own #
, it seemed to go slightly faster in the low end but not by much. The needle in the carb is a standard non adjustable needle. I tried installing an adjustable needle but all of the notches 1 to 5 all seemed bad so I put the nonadjustable needle back in. 
