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Post by carasdad on Apr 24, 2014 12:51:11 GMT -5
Suffering a Minarelli Migraine. Ok..blinkers will work when key is on and engine is NOT running.(As they run off of the battery on this typical AC system) Leave blinker on and crank engine and they go off and will not blink. Leaving them on and hitting the Kill Switch they begin to work again. It gets more bizarre..trust me. Check the battery with engine off and it reads 12.  VDC. Start the engine and the multimeter flips and flashes numbers so fast ya can't see them when ya check the battery. Hit the Kill Switch and it goes right back to 12. VDC. Engine and frame grounds all check out..all lights work fine..horn E-Start etc. Try to check Stator AC output is a no go. Unplugged from the harness black on black..and red to yellow then white wire shows mayhem!!! The meter just flashes all kinds of random numbers and gives no output reading. Again Scooter starts and runs fine! BUT..while running..if you unplug the 3 wire Stator connector..the engine idles WAY high to about 3,500rpm and stays there.(yes even after the auto enricher has warmed and shut off) Plug the Stator connector back together and it instantly drops down to a nice 1,800-2,000 rpm idle... ::stumped:: But still no flashers or stable/readable output from ANY Stator wire. In fact even the red CDI power wire does this..you cannot get a normal 40-100 VAC reading from it..3 different Meters used for all the testing..and they all just flash when testing ANY wire from the Stator. Again..red CDI..yellow lighting..white for charging and even blue for the pickup trigger...all just flash random numbers. YET!! The Scooter starts and runs fine. Now the very odd part. Set the Meter to AC then DC and touch ONLY the Meters black wire to the frame at either setting...and you get the same flickering of the Meter...just as ya do when putting black to ground and red to a Stator output wire. Shut the engine off and do the same..just touching the black lead to ground..and you get a 0.0 (normal reading) Swapped in a good Stator..same thing..tested and swapped a new R/R along with it..same thing. Tested the leads to the auto enricher in case it was shorted and voltage to that flickers as well. Unplugged the auto enricher to rule out a short in it..and still the same. Removed the black kill wire..same thing. It seems as if their is a Hot to Ground short in the system maybe??? Yet only present when the engine is running..??..  The only upgrade or change the guy has made to the Scoot was to use 194/T10 base LED lights in his instrument cluster. Soo..I wonder..since LED's are polarized..could they be acting like a 1/2 wave rectifier or diode and dumping part of the AC current from the Stator to ground... causing a short/hot to ground effect?. I know LED bulbs can create havoc on some systems..but the blinker bulbs are standard filament type bulbs..only the dash panel bulbs(that run off the Stator) ate LED bulbs. But even if they were acting as a diode does and dumping 1/2 of the Stators AC current to ground..would I not still be able to get a good..steady..stable and visible AC reading from all of my Stators wires?..  Umm..so like..somebody...Help??  Thanks, Glenn |
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Post by carasdad on Apr 22, 2014 8:53:21 GMT -5
That is is insane! Twice what the Scooter cost? When I was the Mechanic at a rental and repair shop..they would charge $50-$75 depending on the damage. I would Glass the broken pieces back together using fiber glass auto body cloth and resin. The reason they charged them that much was because at the end of each year..the Scoots were sold as used..and any damage depreciated their value. Scratches and dings were ignored..only cracked or broken body panels were charged for. 'Cause when ya rent a vehicle..you gotta expect a few scratches etc.. wow.. $1800.. |
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Post by carasdad on Apr 21, 2014 7:38:02 GMT -5
Flashers run off the battery..battery is new and test out at 13.6 volts. With key on they work fine..but as soon as I fire up the engine they stop. R/R and flasher relay from my new parts bin do the same. Any clues or ideas? Thanks in advance...
Glenn
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Post by carasdad on Apr 18, 2014 19:48:22 GMT -5
Problem solved!
Black ground wire, probably a spare next to leads from turn signal switch and below the fork was a red dc wire not connected. Must have been dc current induced. Red wire was connected to grey wire to a small bulb in the headlight reflector which lights when ignition is on. No longer have a problem. Thanks for suggestions.
Anybody know this gentleman?? My Same exact Scoot is doing hte same exact thing!!..  I read his post and looked for what he found..and I don't find that. My signals work great with just the key on..but as soon as I start the engine..they stop flashing. Flasher relay from another does the same thing..so I know that is good. Any clues? |
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Post by carasdad on Apr 12, 2014 9:15:05 GMT -5
skuttadawg..I am the original owner..so it is the stock part.. @alley..wish I had seen your post BEFORE I did so much testing and research Sir.. Thanks for the input all.. Anyway I got it resolved and made an important discovery that will save folks well over $100.00 on those so called 'Proprietary' Stators.. You can read about it here..just don't get these things on the market before I build a few more and do the same..  Glenn The link.. All the important info..documentation and pics are on page 2 of this thread.. 49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/8538/matter-stator 
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Post by carasdad on Apr 11, 2014 22:18:35 GMT -5
Are you checking the stator voltage with the meter set at AC or DC? You need to use the AC setting. AC of course..it is an AC system... |
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Post by carasdad on Apr 11, 2014 8:18:09 GMT -5
they can heat up and melt the insulating coating and short out that is why you have no current coming from it or there is a break in the wire Must be it..cause this morning I got voltage...it was anywhere from 0.6vac to 80vac but it jumped around so fast on my digital multimeter..you could barely read it!! It flipping the values back and forth like a Strobe Light...flash flash flash...never a steady constant value. The white wire was between 18-24vac constant depending on rpms. Red CDI power wire shows a steady 58vac-60vac...Trigger wire is a steady 1.5vac-2.5vac. But that yellow wire...wow...it was like watching a Slot Machine...continuously changing as the numbers just scrolled. Engine runs fine..just the brake lights and turn signals won't work with engine running. Shut off engine...turn on key and they all work perfect! Voltage at battery with engine off is a nice 12.8vdc..with engine running it drops and fluctuates between 10vdc and just flashing numbers changing too fast to even read..but they are 3 digit numbers!!  Adly wants $139.00 for a Stator...ouch! It does not use the standard 7 pole Jog Stator ..it is 6 pole. Buy I am sure their is an alternative or equivalent to this $139.00 Stator..has got to be. That is over 4 times the cost of a run of the mill standard Jog Stator..  |
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Post by carasdad on Apr 10, 2014 21:45:54 GMT -5
Contact the vendor and ask about the 7 vs 6 coil on clicking the part number. I doubt very much the 7 coil unit will work. If worse comes to worse, you can get several yards of magnet wire and rewind your old stator. Thanks.. I have never had one wear out..I don't see how as the winds are not moving parts..just bobbins of insulated wire. Nothing came unsolder-ed..all looks intact...just no current from the yellow wire...confusing.. |
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Post by carasdad on Apr 9, 2014 20:26:16 GMT -5
I have a matter of the Stator.. My Adly 2 stroke 50 has a 6 coil stator. 5 bronze ones + the one exciter coil for a total of 6. Every stator I see has 6 bronze coils + 1 exciter coil for a total of 7. The Adly (expensive) site itself shows the stator as a total of 7 coils in the diagram..but when you click on it's part number the pic it shows has a total of 6 coils. Will the 6+1 type work with my 5+1 original? I have never seen a Minarelli engine that only had a 6 coil except this one....being 5 + 1 exciter coil...vs. the 7 coil which are 6 bronze wound + 1 exciter coil. The yellow wire on mine is dead and has zero output for battery charging etc. The white wire has the normal 18-24vac. This has me confused and wonder if the 7 coil will work with what I have  ..cause I cannot even find a 6 coil one... |
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Post by carasdad on Mar 12, 2014 18:18:26 GMT -5
I can understand how China Scoots can be such dependable rental machines, and such a dismal failure for the general public.
The rental place knows all the tricks to keep the scoots going.
The general public - not a clue.
The rental place probably uses the same mechanic for all machines.
The general public is lucky to find a place that works on China Scoots. If they do it is $80/hr.
The rental place knows how to put them away for the season.
The general public is not going to get that scooter started in the Spring by themselves.
China Scoots can work, and work well. Now we just need to get the Manufactures in China to deliver them in the condition it takes us many hours to achieve.
It gets better... I was the Scooter Mechanic at my buddies rental shop for a few years. Each Scoot rented paid for itself in his wholesale cost within about a month or so. At the end of each season he sold them a bit below the 'used' Scoot price and made even more money off that. Then each year he bought new ones for the start of the tourist season here at the Resort Beach..and did the same thing all over again. We also rented Kayaks..Canoes and did the same. The only rental items we kept each year were the Jet Ski's and Pontoon Boats as they could not pay for themselves in one season obviously. It is definitely a way to make money..  |
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Post by carasdad on Mar 12, 2014 6:14:33 GMT -5
Like Alleyoop says..it can be done..but lots to do. I have built a few actual 50mph 138QMB scoots. But I had a big bore kit(50mm) with an expensive heavy duty stroker crank..A9 cam..performance pipe..taller tires..swapped out rear gears..milled ported and polished head and much more. So if you do the work yourself..your $800.00 brand new scoot becomes a $1,400 one that still won't run with the 150's that they also paid just about $800.00 new for. Also..the faster they go..the faster they blow.. |
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Post by carasdad on Mar 12, 2014 6:05:44 GMT -5
Buy American! Made in the USA.. I owned a 2001 Harley Sportser..fun to ride..poor gas mileage..lots of vibration..and way too heavy for this 145lb man. But made in America?..Buy American as Hog owners say? NO..assembled in America with Taiwanese..Chinese..Italian and Japanese parts.. My wholesaler in China has a contract for factories in China and Taiwan where she gets her 'American Made' Harley parts.. The carbs..the electrical system and most of the engine parts are made overseas. She ships them to Milwaukee Wisconsin where they are 'Assembled in America' Back in the day..yes they were American made but did have some Italian parts made by Aermacchi and other parts by Japan and Spain. In fact Aermacchi even made Harley Mopeds and Dirt bike 2 strokes for them!! Check these links.. huskyrestoration.com/?p=1116 www.motorcyclemuseum.org/asp/classics/bike.asp?id=76 So ya see even as early as the 1970's they were not 'American Made'  So take off those 'American Made' HD T-Shirts and decals..and stop looking down on Chinese and Japanese bikes..because THEY are the one that make the parts to 'Assemble' your 'American Made' $8,000--$12,000 'Real Man's' ride.. Yes I did enjoy my Harley..but if that is what it takes to make a man...something material and over priced ...no thanks..not even the decals for them are American Made. If you must rely on what you ride to make you a 'Man'..then ya must be compensating for something you lack elsewhere..most likely something you treasure that is hidden beneath your 'American Made' Boxer Shorts... ...lol |
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Michigan
by: carasdad - Mar 9, 2014 8:05:32 GMT -5
Post by carasdad on Mar 9, 2014 8:05:32 GMT -5
Holland.Michigan....
Glenn
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Post by carasdad on Mar 5, 2014 6:35:46 GMT -5
I've had some of my Derbi GP1 50cc 2T taken apart for various things over the winter and haven't run it in 4-6 months. Any advice on bleeding air out of the oil pump & lines and ensuring adequate lubrication for the first few starts? Easy..open the bleeder screw on the pump itself until oil flows from it. DO NOT start and run the engine until oil is going into the Carb line. No amount of 'cranking' will get the oil up there as it takes a long time to get from the oil pump up to the engine. Staring it that way will give you a "dry Run' engine for several miles and of course seize the engine. What we do is..bleed the pump and line... Pull the line from the carb..Then run the engine on 32:1 premix until we see oil bubbling from the carbs oil inlet line. We drain the tank and put one quart of the 32:1 premix in it and run until we see oil oozing from the carb inlet hose. Then fill the tank up full with straight gas. Yes it will still be partially a premix in the tank..but will be less than 100:1 once the tank is topped off. Once done..you are ready to ride using your oil reservoir as usual. Not bleeding the oil pump has caused more seized engines for 'do it yourself BBK installers' than I can count on my fingers and toes.. Don't risk that expensive new top end..  Glenn p.s. DO NOT forget to drain the carb and fuels lines..or the premix gas will not get into the engine right away! DO NOT just let the engine idle as the pump barely works at idle and it would take all day to finish bleeding the pump. Ride it gently and rev the engine a few times until you see oil bubbling from the disconnected oil line.. |
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Post by carasdad on Mar 5, 2014 6:25:36 GMT -5
Laws are only words written on paper....words that change on a whim.....and are interpreted differently daily by politicians...lawyers....judges...and policemen. Anyone who has total faith in the system.....and believes that all laws are applied equally....despite race...religion...or economic status...is a damn fool..... No not flaming anyone..but I have had experience with my pension that is "Federally Protected".. Bottom line of it is only...IF the State..County etc decide to abide by this..which many don't. They over ride a Federal mandate and do it anyway. Contact a Federal Court and they will say there is nothing they can do about a lower Court over ruling their order.. Ask an Attorney..they will tell you the same.. In this world of electronic technology..nothing including our money is Federally protected.. All they gotta do is electronically withdraw it if they feel they want to. Again..dealt with this before..but not form a 'fake check' but from a credit card collector after my card was stolen..REPORTED right away.It was still used..and I paid for it all..
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VDC. Start the engine and the multimeter flips and flashes numbers so fast ya can't see them when ya check the battery. Hit the Kill Switch and it goes right back to 12.
