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Post by lain on Nov 9, 2015 22:04:15 GMT -5
Okay thanks for replying. Okay give me step by step instructions to see if theres gas in my oil because even cold it smells like gas..... Smells can come from the scooter. Gas and oil are 2 products of the same thing, so burned oil may smell like gas if you aren't used to it. If you had gas in your oil it would not run well, I have had gas in oil on one of my old engines, it will run poorly and make pops happen underneath the piston instead of above it only. |
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Post by lain on Nov 9, 2015 22:00:31 GMT -5
That's about what you should expect out of a stock 50cc. If there's only 3 wires then you are missing 2. There should be 5 in total. 3 on the 4 pin connector after removing the speed limiter wire, and 2 on the 2 pin connector to the CDI. It sounds like you already have the limiter wire removed though.
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Post by lain on Nov 9, 2015 16:28:49 GMT -5
It sounds like you may be overreacting to a simple misunderstanding. Make sure to check your oil on level ground when the engine is cold, not after riding. If it rises overnight then it must be a bad float allowing gas to get in, but then it would cause hard starting in the first starts of the day. Oil level will "rise" after riding because oil like metal expands with heat. Hot or warm oil can sometimes smell like something else, you could also be smelling a gas drip that evaporated off the engine case.
Rattle from CVT area may be worn variator weights, or possibly a loose cable mounting bracket, those small metal things that hold the brake cables and such can come loose and make noises, I choose to get rid of all and replace with heavy duty zipties, much less noise. Could be anything else that could come loose too, things coming loose and making noises is a common thing for bikes.
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Post by lain on Nov 8, 2015 16:35:04 GMT -5
The turn signal relay isn`t getting hot. I`m leaning toward a loose fuse wire or ground wire to engine, since the scooter often went from dead to normal by rocking it onto the center stand. I tried a mulitmeter on the battery and it showed 12.9 volts static. I`m going to retry it while pushing the start button, but the starter isn`t engaging so I don`t know if it`ll show a load when I do that. I`m going to check the fuse wire and ground wire to engine and after that try switching batteries with my newer scooter. I`m thinking it`s a loose connection of some kind, unless the battery is going out and something inside it gets jostled when I rock the scooter...I just need a day off without rain to mess with it again. Thanks for the input, guys.. See those two larger terminals on the solenoid? Try connecting them with a screwdriver briefly. If your battery has enough power the starter will attempt to start the engine. This will work as long as the engine is grounded and the heavy wires that go to the battery and solenoid and starter are connected. |
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Post by lain on Nov 8, 2015 14:21:34 GMT -5
You can do it without pulling the jug, but you may have leakage around the base gasket since you wouldn't be able to replace it. I personally wouldn't risk it. Having to go back to that point to replace the base gasket is a pain, but rather do it once than have to do everything over twice or more. The risk of the base gasket coming loose is too great, 1/4 engines will stick together and need something like a rubber mallet to free them, but the rest will come loose and leave you with leaks. |
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Post by lain on Nov 8, 2015 9:55:03 GMT -5
A neighbor kid found a scooter, a mini-bike, in the woods. He called the police to report it, and a patrol car came out soon after, but the cop said that since it didn't have a VIN, they weren't really interested, implied he could have it, and left without it. I offered to help him fix it up. (It's missing some parts and others are broken) I found manuals and downloaded them. I hope you can help us. It's a Taotao ATM50, blue. 1) Does the bike have a VIN? None of us could find it, including the cop. 2) Will it start and run without a battery? 3) Do I want a lead acid or a sealed lead acid battery? The latter is a gel, right, and that doesn't have enough output? 4) No key for the gas cap. Do you think I can pick the gas cap lock or get it out somehow without a drill? 5) Where is the emergency Engine Stop switch? 6) The instructions say to keep one's hand on the brake when starting it. Is that only because something not standard might make the engine race, which would put it in gear? Thanks a lot for any help you can give us. I meant to call myself MickATM50, but used 10 instead and now I can't change it! Welcome to the forums, and kudos for helping get this project running! We will help all we can. The ATM50 is a very common model, and all parts are easy to find. 1) the vin is usually located on the main front frame member, there is often a rectangular piece in the body panel that can be removed to show it. 2) It may start and run without a battery if it's an AC system. 3) A standard lead acid battery will do fine, at least 7cca 4) Do not attempt to drill the gas cap lock, sparks and gas don't play nice!!! If a screwdriver jammed into it won't turn it, take it to a locksmith for safety (empty tank is not safe, fumes ignite, not fuel) 5) The emergency kill switch is on the right handlebar, it's usually a red switch that slides 6) The brake does have to be pulled while starting, it completes the starter circuit (some models have a side-stand kill switch, only allowing it to start when up). Hold the brake lever in and either press the starter button, or kick the kickstarter. You'll need to flush the fuel system, and take apart the carb and clean it. Let us know how it goes. Umm I think you mean amps not CCA. The CCA of a standard 7Ah scooter battery is around  . The VIN on the ATM50 is located on the frame behind a small rectangle shaped piece of plastic that can be removed by hand directly below the handlebars about a couple inches above the floorboard. If the VIN is scratched off it is stolen, period. If it is not scratched off I would check it with a VIN lookup service, many of them are online just google it. It sounds like you got a dumb cop, they are all usually dumb about things like scooters because they are not something they need to know to apprehend or cuff a suspect. Cops are dogs, simple as that, they follow trails and bite crime in the butt, but they cannot be counted on for thinking. I once had a cop try to convince me that rain would cause my air conditioner to go up in flames if I didn't remove all the A/C's from my house before every rain storm -_- ... By law he should have reported the vehicle and had it taken to the lot anyways, a random bike stashed int he woods is obviously something stolen. It should have been investigated, the cop has no right at all to let you keep it without doing an investigation, you are dealing with bad cops. What happens when you get hit by a car and they find the VIN because I know forensic and CSI is a lot smarter, and that VIN turns out to be stolen? You get to go to jail right after getting out of the hospital, how fun does that sound? By allowing you to keep the bike he has made it improbable to find any fingerprints of suspects, and because of that now if anything happens if it is reported as stolen it will be on you when shiz goes down. |
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Post by lain on Nov 8, 2015 9:49:41 GMT -5
It's easy to do a load test if you have a multimeter. Hook the meter to the battery on DC setting that can reach 0-15 volts. I use the 50 volts setting myself because I have an analogue meter. Anyways while you have it hooked up it should be showing volts with no load (12-13). Now turn the key on and watch the meter while you use the starter button and brake lever together. A bad battery will drop volts below 9 while starting, a good battery will stay at or above 9 volts while using the electric starter.
Honestly sounds like a loose wire somewhere though.
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Post by lain on Nov 8, 2015 9:27:13 GMT -5
why cant you use original piston cyl and head anyway. Seems like all you would need is new gaskets. Are you sure you cant do top or bottom guide buy just taking tensinor out of the way? I only need top one BTW The head gasket and base gasket will tear or you will get the guide caught on the gasket. Gaskets are not reusable, reuse them if you like to make expensive paperweights. The tensioner isn't in the way really anyways, it just pushes the guide down that's all, but needs to be removed regardless. If you remove the cylinder the piston rings will no longer be in the spots they broke the engine in at, it will be impossible to line it up again and pointless. You will need a new set of rings, and a hone tool if you plan to reuse your old cylinder. If you reuse it with the old rings you will start wasting gas and oil, you may overheat the engine or fill the combustion chamber with carbon deposit very fast, all not good things. When the engine is built, the parts like rings and cylinders and pistons all mate with each other during the breakin. If you try to reuse these pieces it will be nothing but problems and will cause you to spend far more than what you would have if you did it right the first time, not to mention could leave you with a useless engine if you are really ignorant towards it's needs. I'd personally put up with the guide being chipped, though there normally isn't a reason it would chip unless maybe tensioner is too strong. The chain comes towards the engine front via the top then goes around the cam and goes back tot he engine crank via the bottom, so if you think about it it shouldn't even be chipping in the first place so why is that? Replacing the guide won't get rid of whatever caused it. |
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Post by lain on Nov 8, 2015 8:52:44 GMT -5
You'd have to remove the topend of the engine (head and cylinder), be prepared to do a full tear down and rebuild, you will need new parts like a new set of piston rings, a cylinder hone tool or a new cylinder and piston and a full gasket set. Don't start tearing it down until you have all parts needed or you will just be building a large paperweight.
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Post by lain on Nov 6, 2015 21:32:20 GMT -5
Gasket maker was used to repair a leak, soon the new spacer/intake/intake O-ring will be here, and I'll use her old one as a testing unit. The electrical gremlins are really busting my chops... She has NO electrical systems working at all other than the motor runs when the solenoid is jumped. No rear lights, brake lights, turn signals, head lights, running lights, no kill switch, no electric start. Bulbs test good....Didn't have time to ohm everything out with the volt meter, just do a few quick continuity tests. Is the thinner red wire loose or frayed? Sounds like the only thing you have power in is the solenoid you are saying, and that is actually what that thick red wire goes to from the battery. If only the thick red wire is connected then only the solenoid will work when you jump it. |
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Post by lain on Nov 6, 2015 18:38:04 GMT -5
I have the dlh variator. A different package and with 1500rpm springs and 5, 6,7 and 8g roller weights were all included. I installed a new gates belt purchased from a Chinese ebay retailer. Its most likely counterfeit. I checked my clutch shoes and they are in good condition. I have all the same mods as you. I have an orange cdi box. I have my lower exhaust wrapped with racing heat tape to move the very hot gasses past my air intake cone. I think modifying your exhaust ( gutting it ) might be the culprit. Why would doing this give you more "performance' than drilling 5 3/8 inch holes in the back of canister. I think you will find that not many people agree with completely gutting an exhuast. Today in central florida My top speed increased from 55 to 64mph due to the tempatue being a "cool" 67 degrees. Oh yea, i run 7.5 gram rollers. I used a mix of 7 & 8 gram rollers. I highly doubt the muffler is the cause, I've run once with just a tube and had only small performance loss, a gutted muffler would still be better than that haha. However it's a good idea to get a new muffler, you may overheat your engine running like that and run lean on decel which could destroy your exhaust valve. Sometimes the variators that come stock have ramp angles that angle the sliders and make it impossible to reach above 30-35 and just waste RPMs on BBK engines. |
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Post by lain on Nov 6, 2015 9:44:19 GMT -5
I applied high-temp silicone gasket maker to the intake manifold/carb spacer to ensure a good seal. and sprayed all around the jug/carb spacer and carb spacer/intake manifold with brake cleaner. No leaks detected. Sprayed air intake to carb junction and intake manifold to carb junction, no leaks detected. I agree gutting the muffler could create a need to upjet. I'm looking to swap with a known stock muffler to see if this corrects the problem. I'm also going to rebuild a different carb and try that too. I'll keep updating the thread as I do these things. The latest development is scooter lost ALL lights, turn signals, instrument cluster, etc....BUT...grounding out the solenoid terminals causes it to start right up and run. Had all the lights working the day before then nothing today. We had put a new wiring harness in it, but we still don't seem to be running off the stator ( lights don't get brighter when revved). So I'll have to do some electrical diagnostics today as well. High temp gasket maker is the LAST thing you want to put anywhere near your intake! That stuff breaks and gets sucked into the engine very easily as it doesn't hold up to the vacuum pressure of the engine. |
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Post by lain on Nov 5, 2015 20:34:24 GMT -5
Sorry it took so long to get the pics up, the scooter is the ONLY transportation option, the customer has. We finally got it back into the shop yesterday, it died and wouldn't start at all. That turned out to be a bad CDI. Here are the pictures of the vacuum line routing and the "device" the S pipe connects to. The scooter is still having all the same issues as previously posted.     I'm not sure I mentioned this before: the scooter can't seem to be adjusted to where its idle is the correct speed without affecting something else... If the idle speed is set to 3000 rpm, light throttling will cause it to idle down to 1500 - 2000 for a second or two, then go back up to 3000. If adjusted to 1900 - 2000 rpm, light throttling will cause it to idle down to 500 - 700 rpm, which in turn causes it to stall out. Adjusting the A/F mixture screw does NOT affect this behavior. Adjusting the A/F mixture screw one way brings the expected response of light stumbling when increasing throttle from idle. Or adjusting the other way causes light stumbling when going WOT, but not when first coming off idle, as one would expect. Curious to hear your ideas on this. Again, thank you all for the help this is proving a most difficult case. Sounds like a leak maybe. Is the intake on there nice and snug? Is the intake spacer between the engine and the manifold cracked or worn out? Is any of the gaskets or rubber rings between the manifold and engine bad? Are you sure the carb was reassembled correctly? Maybe one of the diaphragms is not sitting correctly or is torn or have a small pinprick hole in it? |
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Post by lain on Nov 5, 2015 20:08:50 GMT -5
Oh man, Those are the wost. At higher speeds they look like flat pavement until you are practically above it, and at night just fughettaboutit!
You know you've documented this pretty well, I'd say to file a claim with the state or whoever owns the road to cover the recent hangar repairs and such.
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Post by lain on Nov 4, 2015 21:31:22 GMT -5
Well when you use a larger carb you also allow a larger band of air to enter which may be ratio-wise the same as the old carb but in quantity there is more gas to explode and more air to use to explode the gas which in turn creates more torque. Bigger more forceful explosions happening in the combustion chamber will force the piston away from the chamber with much more power, of course there is always a limit to how much particles you can fit in there. If you can figure out how to put more in there than physically possible your next project will most likely be a Tardis, lol. That was the same line of thinking I had. But larger carbs have been a hotly debated topic here, so I statistically wanted to confirm or denie it. As for a Tardis, I will leave that to manic doctors. Well I'm no engineer or metal fabricator, but I understand enough physics and often think heavily about how each component in scooters work and how they effect other parts. I still feel like some of the physics of carbs are a mystery to me but I understand that the size of the smallest passageway is the limit of the entire system just like with computers. I compare computers sometimes because that' what I worked on for over a decade before getting into scooters. You know how if you have a super fast cpu on a computer it will still only go as fast as the front bus has bandwidth to allow the electricity to move. I guess I'm getting a little abstract if you don't understand computers already. Maybe a better comparison would be comparing how liquid moves through a straw. Not exactly the same but as far as thinking of providing fuel to the engine, think of providing your favorite "fuel" (like redbull) to your face via a straw. Obviously a wider straw will get that redbull to your face in larger volumes at the same or faster rate than before providing that your face can provide the "vacuum" to pull it in and your face has the space to store it before consuming it... and well let the exhaust go to your imagination on this one, haha. |
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