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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 18:24:54 GMT -5
a locked up starter clutch or "jammed up" rollers will not cause the starter to drag.
in fact it will be no different from any other ordinary start except the clutch will not disengage when the engine fires.
IOW, the engine turns over normally but fails to start.
the engine might even turn over so fast that you would think it was running.
the OP has already mentioned the starter drags, the starter clutch will not cause this. period.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 16:52:37 GMT -5
a locked starter clutch will not cause the starter to alternately drag and turn normally.
the only things i know off that can cause this are, low batt voltage, bad starter, seized engine.
i would imagine using a regular starter on a BBK would have the same effect.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 16:37:51 GMT -5
you know, i can't feel sorry for someone that is this stupid. yeah, i'm talking about you terri. sounds like attempted murder to me, and i do not want to be associated with that kind of violence |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 16:28:24 GMT -5
spoke too soon.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 16:21:57 GMT -5
Look at the Pictures of the Old Piston Again. what i posted was from my own experience, right down to the tapping noise and dragging starter. my engine died of excessive heat, the thing was so hot the block was smoking, the oil dipstick was partially melted. i'm amazed it ran after that. but it did, and i put many miles on it afterwards. what post are these pictures in? BTW, the crank journals in the 244 are roller bearings, not bushings. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 15:04:10 GMT -5
1 year old 150cc gy6 taotao powermax 5k miles gets used about  miles a week Ok so was driving to work, all of a sudden started to lose power, slowed down and shut off. Picked it up later at night, still doesn't start. I had heard a slight clicking or tapping sound the night before it broke down, so I thought the valves were maybe too tight, but thought if that was the issue it would have started after a few hours. this is a classic symptom of a soft seize. these are the exact same symptoms my 244 had went it died, and it dies at WOT due to lack of coolant. in other words it died of excessive heat. after i got it home displayed the same starting issues, the starter would go for about a half turn then drag, go for another half turn and drag. i changed the oil in it, and then let it sit for 2 or 3 days while i repaired the cooling system. after about 3 days i got it started and the engine and starter seemed fine. the above symptoms mentioned by the OP is not a starter issue, but an engine issue. of course, this doesn't mean the starter isn't bad, but there is no indications in the OP that it would be. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 8:03:27 GMT -5
I know the answer,,,,,,buy a Sym and ride the answer is, the OP is here to learn, he said so himself. i know that feeling all to well. when i got my 50cc way back in 2007 i knew they had an engine and 2 wheels, and that's it. but that little 50cc was built like a tank, so it didn't offer me any challenges. it's when i got my 244cc is when i started experiencing the REAL chinese ride. everything, and i do mean everything, i know about scooters, i owe to this bike. i have gained a wealth of hands on knowledge about scooters because of this bike. when i first got it, i didn't know if it would start when i went out to ride it, and if by chance it DID start, i didn't know if it would get me home. i stayed on it though, kept working on it, and i finally wound up with ride i fell in love with. there isn't enough money in the world that could buy this kind of experience. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 24, 2015 17:53:59 GMT -5
This could be it. It only really does like 1 turn when trying to start, . . . a number things can be responsible: 1. discharged battery, charge the battery. 2. dead battery cell, buy a new battery. 3. bad starter. you might be able to service the old one, but getting it back together can be a pain. most likely a gummed up commutator. clean with emery cloth then burnish the commutator with a piece of wood. i doubt you have the means to do this, so get another starter. 4. soft seize. this happens because the engine got too hot. there are a couple of reasons to look into. for air cooled engines: A. running WOT on very hot days B. air/ fuel mixture too lean. or for water cooled engines: C. continued running after complete loss of coolant. either of these are likely, and in all cases the engine "winds down" instead of acting like it locked up. a soft seize will generally "repair itself" after the engine thoroughly cools. if. after 3 or 4 days, the starter still drags, then you need to find a replacement starter or . . . man this doesn't sound good, come to the conclusion that your bearings are toast. i've said this before, and a few others have said it too. the fuel must be sprayed into either the carb or directly into the intake. when bench testing, it's best to remove the carb. when you replaced the cylinder, did you hone it? a cylinder hone chucks into a drill and is used to remove cylinder roughness, varnish, and other crud, from the cylinder walls. it's constantly kept in motion when in use by moving it in and out of the cylinder. AND REMEMBER: keep your workspace "clean" don't have oily, gassy rags laying around, collect them all up and put them in a bucket of water and wash them. keep your gas in marked containers and away from your work area. this isn't a joke, gasoline is some nasty stuff. yeah, your gonna have "flames" shooting out of the exhaust, and maybe even the intake. this is exactly the reason to keep your workspace clean. sparks from connecting wires together can be disastrous when you have trash laying around. with a clean workspace, this stuff is minor. i'm telling you this because you said you are a bicycle mechanic, and you might not be aware of the dangers involved. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 24, 2015 9:51:37 GMT -5
So what's a "Soaring" scooter? Maybe I'm a snob. But when a supposedly professional website is that filled with typos and bad grammar and just plain inaccurate info (seat height is listed as 30" one place, 32+ another place) and absence of info ("Front tire--no"--really? There's no tires on this bike? Or nobody could bother to check their sizes when they mismeasured the seat height?) it makes me wonder how carefully they really look into that whatever I was looking at. These, plus the fact they say they do a complete PDI and then tell you to have a licensed mechanic go over it "before riding", would make me really leery of these folks. But then, I am NOT mechanical at all, so I would be stuck if things turned out hinky. Another thought--if it's a new model, how much was changed from previous models? I've had several folks warn me to never buy the first year of a new model. Nor of a major overhaul of an existing model. Sure, the manufacturers test them, but there's always quirks and bugs that the consumers find for them. Otherwise, looks like a nice scooter. Has better hp than one of the other 250s I compared on the same site. >'Kat i'm not sure if you are referring to the site i posted or not. the site i posted is geared to dealers, not the public. i think dealers are aware that all sccoters have wheels. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 24, 2015 9:48:22 GMT -5
Is there an engine code I should be looking for?,.... ie: 150cc 157QMJ After some further research, I see, I'm also looking for a vertical engine. Is that correct?  Thanks for the info. yes, the 244cc is a vertical engine. other identifying phrases: 244cc, 172MM, honda clone. another thing you need to be aware of is that there are 3 types of 244. 244cc short case mounts a 12 inch wheel 244cc long case mounts a 13 inch wheel the specs of the bike in question should list the front and rear wheel size the other 244 is the cart the cart engine is used in dune buggies and some parts from this engine will not fit the other 2, the variator for example. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 24, 2015 4:29:44 GMT -5
I already knew the orientation for TDC for the cam ive done the valve lashing quite a few times, I was more concerned that maybe i put the chain back on wrong, ill have to go back and check the Freewheel marks you can't put the chain on wrong, you can get the timing marks misaligned but you can't get the chain on wrong. okay, the thing about setting the valve gap, or "lash", is when to do it. when the engine is hot or "cold". if you set them cold when they should be set hot, you will wind up too tight. the 244cc makes this job super easy, set them cold without removing anything from the engine and all you need is a 8mm socket and a pair of needle nose pliers. you don't even need the pliers if you do it right. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 24, 2015 0:19:10 GMT -5
I have not, this is not something I previously knew how to do, hence this topic, so I can learn Also I never said I replaced the coil, just tried a different cdi, but it was giving spark Also would a short in the wiring cause it to have low compression? Or would a weak starter cause the scooter to shut down mid ride? Sorry this questions might seem stupid but I'm still figuring out exactly how everything influences each other. Also if you look at the pics I posted there is some chipping on the head near the valves, not sure if you're saying this is fine or not? The weak starter FOR SURE will prevent the thing from starting. Are you saying when you press (and hold) the starter button the engine turns a bit, then stops till you release and press the button again? Or does it turn ... stop .... turn again for a bit ... stop .... etc? Either way - when you press the button the engine should turn and keep turning without a stop. Short of that you will NEVER get the thing to start especially if you have a vacuum-driven fuel pump which only pumps when the engine turns. Causes: (1) failing battery; (2) inadequate size of wires from battery to solenoid to starter motor; (3) failing starter motor; (4) OEM (i.e., weak) starter motor in a scooter that has a BBK; (5) fluid in the combustion chamber (oil). Eliminate all the battery and wiring issues by using jumper cables from a CAR battery ... black to ground and red DIRECTLY TO THE SCREW ON THE STARTER MOTOR WHERE THE WIRING ATTACHES (but be careful of not touching ground with the red). Even with the key off that should spin the engine. If you have the same turn ... stop ... turn result then you can guess your battery, solenoid and wiring is probably OK. Remove the spark plug and push the starter button. The engine should spin easily for as long as you hold down the button. If there is any oil in the combustion chamber that should also blow it out thru the open spark plug hole. If you saw spark I'd look elsewhere before going on thinking this is an electrical problem. If the engine will not turn over easily, for example, the pump will not lift fuel into the carb and it will never start 'cause there isn't gas where it's needed. get a can of starting fluid (ethanol) and spray a short (!!!) burst into the intake. If it's a fuel problem then the engine will start (and quickly die again as the ethanol is burned up -- but it will start, showing you probably have a fuel problem). Of course, if it dies while riding it may be the fuel pump gave out ... and is now O U T .... and that's why it initially died and also why it now won't start. If you added a BBK then your OEM starter motor is probably not strong enough and should be replaced with a "high torque" motor. About "low compression" ---- if your engine was not turning over easily when you tested compression then you got an incorrect reading. The engine should rotate 3 or 4 times WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN !!!!! to get a good reading. A turn .... stop .... turn will not give any kind of compression. But if you really DO have such incredibly low compression (30 is WAAAYYYY low!), none of the above will correct that. So step 1 is getting the engine to turn properly. Might just be that you then will get enough vacuum to the fuel pump, get fuel to the carb, and the problem will be solved. i agree with most of this except getting the engine to turn over smoothly. you can get it to turn over smoothly with a starter but not by hand. the OP stated in one of his earlier posts that he turned it over by the variator smoothly ( or something like that). there is nothing smooth about turning over an engine by hand that has good compression. it will be alternately easy and hard, depending on the stroke. an easy turning (by hand) engine indicates no compression. this almost always points to bent valves, hole in the piston, or a broken crank/ connecting rod. an inspection at top end rebuild would verify any of these. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 23, 2015 23:37:02 GMT -5
I have not, this is not something I previously knew how to do, hence this topic, so I can learn well, now is the time. a top end rebuild is the perfect time to "get it right" like i said earlier, the CDI works or it doesn't. it's the coil that can appear to work, but it fails to work under load of compression. no, but it will keep the engine from starting, even though everything else was perfect no, but a short would. a short in the wiring robs your system of the power it needs for the spark. didn't you say you did a top end rebuild? this to me implies a replacement of the head, cylinder, and valves. what i'm trying to say here is, if you can't get it running sitting on the bench, then it will never run in the scoot. now is the time to inspect and verify all of the components. this not only includes the top end, but also the stator and pickup, especially the pickup, because this is what provides the pulses to the CDI. now, for a little in depth. get yourself a DC CDI for bench testing the engine. also, provide a kill switch for the pulse pickup, do not attempt to short any of the CDI outputs. use this kill switch to shut off the engine. wire the CDI, pickup, and coil, and leave the stator wires open, do not ground them or connect them to anything. disconnect the autochoke. use an ohmeter to check for grounds between each of the stator wires to engine. these readings should show an open circuit, or with a digital meter a very, very high number. leave everything disconnected except for the following items used to start the engine. you will need a battery charger, and keep the battery on this charger except when using it. wire all the stuff up (kill switch, CDI, coil, and spark plug) and attempt to start the engine. you really don't need to bolt up the carb or exhaust for bench testing. also, keep your area clean around the engine, no rags, paper, gas, bird nests, or anything else that can catch fire. make sure the engine is solidly mounted, put it back in the bike frame if you have to. remember, all you are trying to do is get it to start and run, you aren't checking that the lights, horn, fans, signals, gauges, or anything else works. ONE THING AT A TIME. scoot batteries have screw terminals. get a piece of black heavy gauge starter wire and connect it from the battery to a suitable place on the engine, one of the starter mounting screws would be perfect. get another piece of red heavy gauge starter wire and connect it to the starter terminal, you will touch the other end of this wire to the battery positive post to start the engine. (beware of sparks, this wire can become quite hot if it isn't heavy enough. wear a leather glove on this hand, get a heavier wire if it gets hot. also be aware that you need to "stick it on there" don't be scared, this will cause the wire to weld itself to the battery). an even better approach would be to use the existing starter solenoid. in this case connect the red starter wire to the solenoid and run another heavy gauge red wire from the solenoid to the battery positive post. run one of the small solenoid wires to the battery negative. touch the other to battery positive to engage starter. (this will be a lot better than manhandling a direct to starter wire) wire up the pulse pickup, kill switch, CDI, coil, and plug. squirt a little gas into the carb inlet or direcly into the intake manifold. flip the kill switch to run and touch the red wire to the positve post. the above process will start the scoot. use the kill switch to shut off the engine. this isn't a "brake", all it does is remove the spark. if any of this isn't clear then let me know. *WARNING* gasoline is serious stuff. it ignites easily. only have small amounts around your engine when working on it. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 23, 2015 22:56:06 GMT -5
I turned 15,000 miles on Yellow last week. I'm still a big fan of Roketa. I'm really wanting a larger scoot for highway runs to expand my reach around Dallas. There is a new 2014 Jonway YY250T nearby that I am curious about though. ?IDK? the 244 honda clone will cruise all day long at 65 mph without a sweat, and have a little left. a lot of that depends on the roller weight. the scoot i had shipped with about 11 gram rollers, this was too light for me. it gave me very fast take off speeds and i could hit 60 or so in less than 5 seconds. i preferred a little slower take off with extra torque at the upper end, so i installed 20 gram rollers. this gave me good acceleration and a good top end, with so so acceleration above 60 mph. if you plan on doing highway cruising, then i recommend installing heavier rollers. with just some minor tweaks, you could probably get 80 mph out of a 244. the 244 was designed for WOT running. the crank bearings are ball bearings instead of bushings. remember, there are 2 types of 250s, the 244 and the 257. what i post about 250s applies mostly to the 244. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 23, 2015 20:43:55 GMT -5
I've done pretty good with my 150's. Stepping up to a 250cc seems a little daunting. My knowledge of them is zilch, nada, zip and zero. But, I'm always up for a challenge. I really have my heart set on the one listed. But if it's not going to happen I need to keep looking. Any opinions on the others listed? Anything would help my decision to start leaning toward something. i don't think there would be that much of a difference between a 150 and 250, just a little more of what you already have. i have no experience with roketa brands. my brand was the komoto and it had the geniune CFmoto 244. i put almost 10,000 miles on this bike. BTW, i suggest getting as much bike as you can afford. if you can afford a "brand name" scooter, then do not get a chinese brand. OTOH, i wouldn't trade my chinese experience for anything, because it has given me valuable hands on experience i would never have gotten with a name brand bike. - my 2 cents from an old fart. |
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miles a week
