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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 27, 2015 19:12:11 GMT -5
verbiage needs to be Technically correct when offering Diagnosis and advice on engine internal hard parts i gave to the technical aspects of the symptoms, in very clear language, far clearer than your post 169. it's probably due more to the design of the 244 and to the quality of parts the chinese used in it. by all rights, i should have at least expected a blown head gasket. all i know is, i was riding that thing hard when it died. and i can't find a better term to apply to the situation than a soft seize. i do not care to comment further on this, okay? |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 27, 2015 16:30:40 GMT -5
i'm just telling you the symptoms i had, and i called it a soft seize. i didn't mention ANYTHING about fixing it with emory cloth. what would you like for me to call it? I didn't state you said to fix it with Emory. Since you stated you had a Cold Seize I Incorrectly Assumed you Confirmed with Parts in Hand and Knew The Definition of Any Seize Hard or Soft. missed a point my bad. I thouhg My pics of Seizures would help Any Seize, Hard, Soft or anywhere in-between the Piston is Destroyed and Non Repairable. If operator continues catastrophic engine failure will happen. www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/SeizureHope another defining Seizure helps. If Any Seizure happened to your machine it just didn't go away with no apparent engine damage. A Seizure alone Is Severe Engine Damage. the only reason i mentioned my situation is because the symptoms were similar to the OP. it was a warm day, and i was running WOT down some back roads. came to a stop sign, and when i got stopped i noticed a faint tapping or ticking type noise. i assumed i would need to adjust the valves when i got home and off i went. at this time the scoot was probably drained of coolant. i got maybe a mile further down the road, and the engine wound down and quit. i tried to restart it but the starter would spin normally then drag. i raised the seat to have a look, and i knew as soon as i raised it, it was bad news. the heat was unbelievable and the block was smoking. i felt the radiator and it was cold. i checked the oil, and i noticed the dipstick was partially melted. i push it about a mile to the next house where i left it. a couple hours later i finally got it home. tried to start it again, the same thing with the starter. at this point i didn't have much hope of it ever running again. i got the cooling system all patched up, and got it back on the road. the only thing i can figure that saved that engine was the roller bearings it uses for the crank journals. so, instead of going into all the above dialog, i call it a soft seize. that pretty well implies running an engine so hot it dies. that is a different animal than running an engine without oil. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 27, 2015 10:16:52 GMT -5
I'm helpin bucktwenty with a misunderstanding of what any type of Piston Seize is, That's what a piston guy does. Ya can't fix it with Emory Cloth, Heat Treat Removed will do it again in short order. i'm just telling you the symptoms i had, and i called it a soft seize. i didn't mention ANYTHING about fixing it with emory cloth. what would you like for me to call it? |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 27, 2015 7:54:34 GMT -5
Guys! How about we try and guide Murky through this a step at a time, so he has at least a LITTLE chance of figuring out what is going on? Sure - this COULD be a bunch of things --- but if he is hopping about from one theory to the next he will never, ever, get anywhere. This stuff is interesting to us (esp the stuff P-Guy posts, which is REALLY interesting always) ... I feel we are doing more to confuse than to help at this point. First step - see if the starter or clutch is causing the inability to turn over. ps: dollar - a 150 does not have a bolt on the starter but a screw hole. And the motor, while in fact a torquey little thing, is not at all as torquey as that in a 244cc engine. You can easily hold it in your hand while running it. With the spark plug removed the starter keeps spinning it doesn't stop Now does this mean the starter motor isn't putting out enough power to start the engine? If so how does the starter suddenly not being strong enough make the scooter die while mid ride? since the starter is bad, it wouldn't hurt to tear it down to see if it can be salvaged. these starters are "overbuilt", they employ heavy gauge wiring and other sturdy parts. what usually goes wrong with them is that the commutator fouls or the brushes wear down too far. the commutator can be cleaned by piece of emory clothe. i don't know about a source for brushes. just remember one thing, it might be impossible to reassemble the starter because you won't be able to retain the brushes to clear the commutator. since the starter is already "bad", it certainly wouldn't hurt to give it a try. plus, you might figure out a way to hold the brushes during reassembly. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 19:54:35 GMT -5
i dunno man, i'm just not into 2 wheels as a primary means of transportation.
don't get me wrong, i have a love affair with mine like anyone else, but 80MPH on the interstate is just asking for trouble.
road hazards that cagers ignore can easily wreck you.
yes, i would like to take a long road trip on my bike, but i doubt if it will be by interstate.
the issue of "smog control" will probably prompt a bigger engine, but so far i haven't seen anything that says this is being actively enforced for 2 wheels.
the only exception i know of is california
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 17:59:32 GMT -5
what i posted was from my own experience, right down to the tapping noise and dragging starter. my engine died of excessive heat, the thing was so hot the block was smoking, the oil dipstick was partially melted. i'm amazed it ran after that. but it did, and i put many miles on it afterwards. what post are these pictures in? BTW, the crank journals in the 244 are roller bearings, not bushings. Your Symptoms aside. What the Piston look like After Any Seize. yo have your Old Trophy around to post up a pic? A Classic Cold Seize. Yes it did run enough to limp home.   mine would only turn about a half rev then drag through the rest of the cycle. i tried to start it immediately after it died, and twice more, once when i got it to a friends house, then again after i got it home. same symptoms. i never tried it again until after i repaired the cooling system 2 or 3 days later. i didn't expect it to start, but it did, and i put a lot of miles on it after that with no apparent engine damage. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 17:40:09 GMT -5
to check the starter:
remove from engine.
replace starter wire nut back on to protect the upper threads.
attach black jumper wire to battery and starter housing, one of the mounting tabs.
attach red wire to battery.
hold starter down firmly, and touch red cable to starter terminal.
*CAUTION*
the starter is a high torque motor and it will try to get away from you.
hold it down firmly or put it in a vise.
the starter is a high current device.
you stand a good chance of ruining the start terminal if it isn't protected.
i suggest filling the terminal with nuts to keep this from happening.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 17:09:39 GMT -5
what turned once, the starter or the engine?
and why are you automatically ruling out a soft seize when it can be a cause?
after seeing that you had an "advance" CDI, a soft seize becomes even more probable.
some of these engine will not tolerate high RPMs for an extended period.
added to this, how in the world did you even come close to getting a compression reading?
speaking of compression readings, you said post 10:
"When I try to start it, the cvt will give a slight turn and ill hear it trying to start, but only for a second".
apparently you meant the starter only turned once.
my question about compression now applies to the spark as well.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 10:45:40 GMT -5
Yes, I do believe you are correct! I did't see any pricing on that site,but, noticed the shipping container quantities. Now you've got me wondering about the 300cc(^31 HP) and 500cc (^43 HP)models.  I just bought a new Jonway YY250T on Christmas Eve. I'll wait and see what happens this spring, if I decide to keep it or go with this one, IDK. Especially since they have it listed as available in Yellow. That would be the biggest selling point for me. Well that, and, the trunk space and styling. But definitely the Yellow. My new Jonway (4.9 miles) is white, which, makes a good base for some airbrush work. Thanks for finding this. There may be some hope after all.  Loren i think you will do just fine with a 250, especially if it's the 244. this engine was designed from the get go to run at or near WOT. with minor modifications, you can easily get 75MPH from these engines. mine was all stock, and i topped out at around 70 or so. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 22:16:35 GMT -5
hmmmm . . . .
i'm sure this issue will come up again, i'll keep a close eye on the particulars.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 22:13:55 GMT -5
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 22:11:36 GMT -5
firefox 28.0 i noticed the same thing with the tags, and i've edited the post 3 times to remove them and replaced them with the URL tags. the page in question came from one of my bookmarks and it isn't the only time i've had problems like this. all of my links seem to revert back to it is the ride. i'll open another browser session and select a bookmark and post it here: www.danvk.org/wp/gw-basic-program-decoder/ |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 20:27:03 GMT -5
the thing to remember is, adjusting the clutch/ contra spring will not give you more power, but it does alter the torque curve for your riding style. the trick is to have these balanced so you accelerate at max torque on the RPM curve, this will be the typical max HP range. this can only be achieved by trial and error. install the contra spring, then adjust the rollers for the desired rpm. things to remember: If your roller weights are giving you good acceleration, and a good top end, but when you approach a small hill the scooter slows drastically, this may be caused by having too light of a contra spring. Also if you are running good at say 50MPH, and you slow down to say 35MPH. If you try to accelerate, and you have hardly any acceleration, this can also be caused by having too light of a contra spring. On the other hand, if your spring is too strong, then the roller weights may not be heavy enough to force the belt out all the way and into it's highest gear ratio. If you go with a heavier contra spring, you may need to go to a slightly higher roller weight. Likewise, if you go to a lower spring, you may need to go to a lighter weight. like i said earlier, this is a trial and error process. here is a chart of roller weights for the 244cc. all of the figures in this chart will no doubt be wrong for your ride, but the general trend should be clear. my ride came with 15 grams rollers (6) and i swapped them out for 20 gram rollers. this not only gave me a higher top end, but it also gave me more high end torque, i could easily pass someone when they were doing 55. fc.greensboroday.org/~epaynter/brcvtokay, for some reason i can't seem to post links. i'm working on it. okay, selecting the entire url and dropping it into your search box will bring up the page. this seems to be a scripting issue. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 18:38:03 GMT -5
i know this, a defective starter clutch would be at the very far end of my list of causes for starter drag, if it was on there at all.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 18:28:26 GMT -5
I understand that if the starter clutch was locked up , u would expect the starter would turn the engine over just the same . but that was not the case . I posted pics of the starter clutch in the thread I posted . it seemed like the starter was bad , but after using 2 other starters with the same results , I tore the side cover from the engine and found the starter clutch blown to pieces . after replacing the starter clutch , all three starters worked perfect. there had to be some other issue involved here. how do you think a starter turns the engine over? by locking the starter clutch, that's how. |
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