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Post by endru on Apr 4, 2014 8:50:23 GMT -5
Ah, thank you.
So then the P6 tolerance designation does not mean that the inner diameter of a 6201/P6 is smaller than that of a normal 6201? I guess the problem lies with the size of the end of the 16 tooth reduction gear.
I'll buy normal 6201 bearings. If the 16 tooth doesn't fit well into the new bearings, I guess I can press it out and go back to the old 14 tooth gear, but keep the 50 tooth gear instead of the stock 53. That won't get me as much top end as I want, but it's better than the original.
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Post by endru on Apr 3, 2014 20:51:24 GMT -5
Also - the small white spacer that fits on the countershaft got chewed up. I can't find a replacement online. Does anyone know where I can find that online?
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Post by endru on Apr 3, 2014 18:45:13 GMT -5
The rear tire finally seized up, so I went ahead and autopsied the gearbox. I was shocked by what I found. First of all, I knew it was going to be bad because of the unbelievable amount of metal particles in the drain oil. It was hard to drain too, because there were so many scrap shavings clogging the drain hole. Turns out one of the bearings was completely blown apart. It was the bearing on the gearbox cover side the holds the small 16 tooth gear that's pressed inside the other larger gear (I wish I knew the terms for these). The inner ring of this bearing is in pieces. I have an idea of what happened. I bought a taller gear set after putting on my BBK. Most stock gears are 15/51 - % from what I've heard. Mine were 14/53 though. Not sure why. I remember when I installed my new 16/50 gear set, the small 16 tooth gear had a really hard time fitting into its bearing - the one that got destroyed. Both ends of that small gear were really tight actually. So maybe that extra pressure on the inner ring caused it to fail? Also strange: The stock bearings are labeled 6201/ P6. Sources I've looked at call for 6201 (no P6). What does the P6 even mean?? Would that translate to a slight diameter difference of the inner bearing ring? The ends of new gears may also not have been sized to spec. I have no idea. At least now I know which bearings I need to buy. I'm hoping if I get regular 6201 bearings, the new gear set will fit comfortably. I sincerely hope that metal in the gear lube didn't ruin any other bearings in the gearbox.
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Post by endru on Apr 1, 2014 6:22:55 GMT -5
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Post by endru on Mar 31, 2014 20:39:08 GMT -5
I hadn't thought to check that. Just looked at it briefly - it appears to be okay. The float moves freely and the valve comes out of it's seat. Could have been acting up with fuel in the bowl though.
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Post by endru on Mar 31, 2014 20:32:47 GMT -5
Back when I put my new final gear set in, I had to pound on the final gear set to get it into the bearing. It rotated fine after that, but when it all got put together, there was some play between the clutch and the rear wheel, and it would make a clinking sound when I turned the clutch back and forth. Not the best situation, but I didn't have much choice I guess. I've been riding quite a bit since then, probably put about 300 miles on the new gears and there wasn't any problem except for that clinking sound when transitioning between throttling and letting of the throttle. Just the other day though I started to get a noise, like a metallic buzzing sound that came from the gearbox. It increased with speed, so I was pretty certain the bearing was going out. The rear wheel still rotated freely until today, now it seems to be resisting when I turn it by hand and there's some extra "noises" coming from down there. I'm pretty sure I'm going to need at least one new bearing. Before I open it up and inspect the damages, I'd like to have the new bearings in hand so I can hopefully install them and slap it all back together. Does anyone know which bearings are in the rear gearbox, and where a good place to get them is? Would one of these by chance be correct? www.scooterdomain.com/fig-12-part-no-15-139qmb-bearings-6201-p6-for-gear-case-cover-set-of-2-by-no-qmb120015.htmlwww.scooterdomain.com/fig-12-part-no-20-139qmb-bearing-6203-p6-by-no-qmb120020.html
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Post by endru on Mar 31, 2014 20:15:12 GMT -5
I had had a problem plaguing me for quite some time now and I FINALLY solved it. This is something that almost made me give up on scooting. I had this thread going a while back if you want to read details itistheride.boards.net/post/27669/thread. In a nutshell, I was having major issues at higher rpms, the scooter would barely get over 35 mph without the engine repeatedly cutting out and dropping my speed suddenly. It would make a loud "braaap." It was like fuel was cutting out or the timing suddenly reversed, it was miserable. Getting up to that speed was laborious too, I could feel the engine hesitating. I had tried all kinds of things... new fuel filter, manual petcock, new CDI, new rings, back to the stock head, cleaned the carb, stock exhaust, different octane fuel, jetting and more (not in that order). Nothing made a difference. Just got a new carb, slapped it on, and we're back in business. Easily hit 45, no fuel issues at all. I wish I'd tried that sooner. Can't wait to see what it'll do after I re-mod it. I have no clue what the problem could have been with the old carb. It was the stock carb, the scooter has less than 1,500 miles on it. The new carb is the same size - 19mm intake. My only theory is that the clip on the needle, which was not adjustable, was set fine for a stock 50cc but couldn't cope with the BBK. Either way I'm just relieved it's working again!
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Post by endru on Sept 17, 2013 21:23:08 GMT -5
Yep, that's the list I researched. It's the Keihin 99101-116 that we're looking at.
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Post by endru on Sept 17, 2013 20:49:48 GMT -5
That would be a relief, I guess. I was hoping I had discovered a silver bullet that would fix my persisting scooter problems. Maybe no such luck though. I researched jetsrus.com and other sites that sell jets and include detailed measurements and it looks like there is really only one size jet for these carbs anyway, i.e. there's no "shorter head" version of the jets I have. I just really think it's an odd carb to begin with, given the abnormal idle screw and the fact that the needle clip is not adjustable. I would have liked to buy a beefier carb anyway, like 23mm or something, except that then I think I'd need a larger intake manifold and a new 42mm UNI filter. But hey, if I were certain it would fix my problems, then I would jump right on that.
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Post by endru on Sept 16, 2013 20:36:21 GMT -5
Check out the difference between jet on the left which came stock in my carb and the jet on the right which I ordered a while back. I just now noticed: The head of the newer jet is slightly longer than the head of the stock jet - 0.7mm longer to be exact. Overall length is the same, as is thread diameter, number of threads and distance between each thread is the same. Would using the jet with the longer head cause issues? From what I understand, the needle comes in at the threaded end of the jet. If the head is longer, then the threaded end wouldn't screw in as far, which means the needle wouldn't go into the jet as far... so my guess is yes it would cause problems. In the past I bad bad startups and idle, making me guess the needle wasn't closing off the main jet the whole way at idle. Additionally, I had a 50mm bbk and free flow exhaust and air filter, yet I couldn't get the scooter to run half decently on anything larger than an # main, which is definitely abnormal. The other thing worth mentioning is that my idle jet is not the same shape as a typical idle jet. It's still a Keihin idle jet, but slightly different. See my previous thread itistheride.boards.net/index.cgi?board=50ac&action=display&thread=2703So... am I on to something here? Attachments:
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Post by endru on Sept 14, 2013 21:51:34 GMT -5
[replyingto=desmerwebb]PCB_GY6%27n[/replyingto]Heads with 64mm valves are often much less expensive than 69mm valve heads. If you find that you currently have a 69mm valve head, you can replace it with a 64mm valve head as long as you replace the valve rocker arms. You don't need a whole new rocker arm assembly, just the arms. You could probably find a set of those on ebay for about $10 and save yourself a few bucks in the end.
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Post by endru on Sept 14, 2013 21:36:54 GMT -5
[replyingto=jjoshua20213]jjoshua20213[/replyingto]My stock head had 69mm valves and my new head has the shorter valves. I've noticed that it's slightly more difficult to get a feeler gauge in underneath the tappet on the shorter valves, the top edge of the head gets in the way a little bit. Nothing major of course. Most newer scoots seem to have the 69mm valves, maybe they started to do that to make a valve adjustment easier.
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Post by endru on Sept 14, 2013 21:28:37 GMT -5
Any chance it could be the idle jet? I'm still running the stock #35 with a 19mm carb, so maybe it idles lean.
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Post by endru on Sept 14, 2013 20:54:25 GMT -5
[replyingto=tvnacman]tvnacman[/replyingto]It was already warmed up before I shot the video. I couldn't get it to even turn over more than a couple times unless I had the throttle stop turned almost all the way out.
Even if it weren't warmed up, this kind of backfiring wouldn't be normal.
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Post by endru on Sept 14, 2013 15:16:26 GMT -5
I might have spoken too soon. I put the shroud back on, which of course included removing the intake and exhaust, then reinstalling them. When everything was put back together, it was back to its old self. I double checked the valve lash, swapped out the coil for my old one, adjusted the carb, but no luck.
I recorded a video of the problem. You can see about halfway through how it skips and sputters at idle. When I can manage to rev it up, it does just fine. What the video doesn't show is the smoke that came out the air intake shortly after I started trying to start it up. In between tries there would be just a little bit of vapor coming out the intake.
Sorry to get everyone's hopes up!
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