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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 24, 2015 10:05:29 GMT -5
I had bought a top end rebuild kit but it didn't come with a new head
Anyway I really appreciate the long simplified responses I'm going to turn it into a check list and go through everything mentioned then I'll check back in with the results
Thanks again
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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 24, 2015 10:10:22 GMT -5
About "low compression" ---- if your engine was not turning over easily when you tested compression then you got an incorrect reading. The engine should rotate 3 or 4 times WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN !!!!! to get a good reading. A turn .... stop .... turn will not give any kind of compression. But if you really DO have such incredibly low compression (30 is WAAAYYYY low!), none of the above will correct that. So step 1 is getting the engine to turn properly. Might just be that you then will get enough vacuum to the fuel pump, get fuel to the carb, and the problem will be solved. This could be it. It only really does like 1 turn when trying to start, also i have tried putting fuel in the vac line to bypass car |
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Post by crawford on Dec 24, 2015 12:51:28 GMT -5
since you rebuild what is your compression if 30 is you answer not in blue moon will it start you will need 125 to fire you then need to go back to beginning and fine out why. Test after you put a table spoon of oil into spark plug hole then test compression if compression comes up rings not sealing if nothing valves no closing . All in All if no real compression no way in will it start no matter what else you do.   |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 13:06:23 GMT -5
since you rebuild what is your compression if 30 is you answer not in blue moon will it start you will need 125 to fire you then need to go back to beginning and fine out why. Test after you put a table spoon of oil into spark plug hole then test compression if compression comes up rings not sealing if nothing valves no closing . All in All if no real compression no way in will it start no matter what else you do. The problem is he does not KNOW what his compression is. The engine will barely turn over - 1 rotation and then it halts .... then 1 rotation and halt ... not anywhere near enough to get a reading. Step #1, before anything else, is to get that corrected. Who knows - if he gets the thing turning over properly with the starter motor, it just may fire right up and be fine. And, if he has a below-floor gas tank, not a high one that will drain to the carb just by gravity, the fuel pump (if he still has an old fashioned vacuum driven one) is not getting any vacuum to pump because of the lack of rotation. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 13:09:40 GMT -5
About "low compression" ---- if your engine was not turning over easily when you tested compression then you got an incorrect reading. The engine should rotate 3 or 4 times WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN !!!!! to get a good reading. A turn .... stop .... turn will not give any kind of compression. But if you really DO have such incredibly low compression (30 is WAAAYYYY low!), none of the above will correct that. So step 1 is getting the engine to turn properly. Might just be that you then will get enough vacuum to the fuel pump, get fuel to the carb, and the problem will be solved. This could be it. It only really does like 1 turn when trying to start, also i have tried putting fuel in the vac line to bypass car Gas has to be atomized into the air stream. Just squirting it into the intake manifold will not tell you much (and will make it even harder to turn the engine. That's why I suggested starter fluid (which is in a spray can). But even that will not work if you do not get the starter turning the engine properly with the starter motor. |
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Post by crawford on Dec 24, 2015 13:20:08 GMT -5
If plug is removed will it turn Over?
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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 24, 2015 13:25:51 GMT -5
If plug is removed will it turn Over? Will try this tonight This could be it. It only really does like 1 turn when trying to start, also i have tried putting fuel in the vac line to bypass car Gas has to be atomized into the air stream. Just squirting it into the intake manifold will not tell you much (and will make it even harder to turn the engine. That's why I suggested starter fluid (which is in a spray can). But even that will not work if you do not get the starter turning the engine properly with the starter motor. Ah I see that makes more sense. Thanks for info so my to do list is as follows: Test battery Test starter solenoid Test starter with jumper cables, black to ground, red to screw on starter wire Try starter with plug removed Anything else i missed that falls in this ballpark? |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 14:04:16 GMT -5
If plug is removed will it turn Over? Will try this tonight Gas has to be atomized into the air stream. Just squirting it into the intake manifold will not tell you much (and will make it even harder to turn the engine. That's why I suggested starter fluid (which is in a spray can). But even that will not work if you do not get the starter turning the engine properly with the starter motor. Ah I see that makes more sense. Thanks for info so my to do list is as follows: Test battery Test starter solenoid Test starter with jumper cables, black to ground, red to screw on starter wire Try starter with plug removed Anything else i missed that falls in this ballpark? Before anything else try #3 (test starter with jumper cables). If the engine STILL does niot turn over properly there is no reason the check the battery at this time. If it DOES, then either the battery, wiring or solenoid is the problem with poor turnover. Test it with a CAR battery, not your scooter batter which may be a part of the problem |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 24, 2015 17:53:59 GMT -5
This could be it. It only really does like 1 turn when trying to start, . . . a number things can be responsible: 1. discharged battery, charge the battery. 2. dead battery cell, buy a new battery. 3. bad starter. you might be able to service the old one, but getting it back together can be a pain. most likely a gummed up commutator. clean with emery cloth then burnish the commutator with a piece of wood. i doubt you have the means to do this, so get another starter. 4. soft seize. this happens because the engine got too hot. there are a couple of reasons to look into. for air cooled engines: A. running WOT on very hot days B. air/ fuel mixture too lean. or for water cooled engines: C. continued running after complete loss of coolant. either of these are likely, and in all cases the engine "winds down" instead of acting like it locked up. a soft seize will generally "repair itself" after the engine thoroughly cools. if. after 3 or 4 days, the starter still drags, then you need to find a replacement starter or . . . man this doesn't sound good, come to the conclusion that your bearings are toast. i've said this before, and a few others have said it too. the fuel must be sprayed into either the carb or directly into the intake. when bench testing, it's best to remove the carb. when you replaced the cylinder, did you hone it? a cylinder hone chucks into a drill and is used to remove cylinder roughness, varnish, and other crud, from the cylinder walls. it's constantly kept in motion when in use by moving it in and out of the cylinder. AND REMEMBER: keep your workspace "clean" don't have oily, gassy rags laying around, collect them all up and put them in a bucket of water and wash them. keep your gas in marked containers and away from your work area. this isn't a joke, gasoline is some nasty stuff. yeah, your gonna have "flames" shooting out of the exhaust, and maybe even the intake. this is exactly the reason to keep your workspace clean. sparks from connecting wires together can be disastrous when you have trash laying around. with a clean workspace, this stuff is minor. i'm telling you this because you said you are a bicycle mechanic, and you might not be aware of the dangers involved. |
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Post by cyborg on Dec 24, 2015 20:23:13 GMT -5
I know the answer,,,,,,buy a Sym and ride
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 8:03:27 GMT -5
I know the answer,,,,,,buy a Sym and ride the answer is, the OP is here to learn, he said so himself. i know that feeling all to well. when i got my 50cc way back in 2007 i knew they had an engine and 2 wheels, and that's it. but that little 50cc was built like a tank, so it didn't offer me any challenges. it's when i got my 244cc is when i started experiencing the REAL chinese ride. everything, and i do mean everything, i know about scooters, i owe to this bike. i have gained a wealth of hands on knowledge about scooters because of this bike. when i first got it, i didn't know if it would start when i went out to ride it, and if by chance it DID start, i didn't know if it would get me home. i stayed on it though, kept working on it, and i finally wound up with ride i fell in love with. there isn't enough money in the world that could buy this kind of experience. |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 12:40:05 GMT -5
i agree with rcq , if the starter is only turning over once or so then wont turn over any more until u release and press the ignition again , then there is still an issue with the starter / starter clutch. and yes a starter clutch issue like this may be will def keep the engine from starting " happened to me" . was the starter stopping because u let off the button or did it stop turning on its own?
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 12:43:06 GMT -5
this will suck if all it was was a starter issue . if it does stop on its own then thats what it is. either starter , starter clutch or in the electric going to the starter
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 25, 2015 15:04:10 GMT -5
1 year old 150cc gy6 taotao powermax 5k miles gets used about  miles a week Ok so was driving to work, all of a sudden started to lose power, slowed down and shut off. Picked it up later at night, still doesn't start. I had heard a slight clicking or tapping sound the night before it broke down, so I thought the valves were maybe too tight, but thought if that was the issue it would have started after a few hours. this is a classic symptom of a soft seize. these are the exact same symptoms my 244 had went it died, and it dies at WOT due to lack of coolant. in other words it died of excessive heat. after i got it home displayed the same starting issues, the starter would go for about a half turn then drag, go for another half turn and drag. i changed the oil in it, and then let it sit for 2 or 3 days while i repaired the cooling system. after about 3 days i got it started and the engine and starter seemed fine. the above symptoms mentioned by the OP is not a starter issue, but an engine issue. of course, this doesn't mean the starter isn't bad, but there is no indications in the OP that it would be. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 25, 2015 15:29:07 GMT -5
This COULD be a lot of things .... but until the starter is actually doing enough there is ZERO way of diagnosing anything.
Who knows - get the starter working and maybe the whole problem goes away. NO ONE here knows anything about what is going on until the engine is turning over properly. At this point we all are just speculating.
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miles a week