Scoot died, NEW STARTER, still doesn't start  By  murkyapricot (Read 14,868 times)

i'm just telling you the symptoms i had, and i called it a soft seize.
i didn't mention ANYTHING about fixing it with emory cloth.
what would you like for me to call it?

I didn't state you said to fix it with Emory.
Since you stated you had a Cold Seize I Incorrectly Assumed you Confirmed with Parts in Hand and Knew The Definition of Any Seize Hard or Soft.   missed a point my bad.
I thouhg My pics of Seizures would help
Any Seize, Hard, Soft or anywhere in-between  the Piston is Destroyed and Non Repairable.
If operator continues catastrophic engine failure will happen.
www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Seizure
Hope another defining Seizure helps.
If Any Seizure happened to your machine it just didn't go away with no apparent engine damage.
A Seizure alone Is Severe Engine Damage.

the only reason i mentioned my situation is because the symptoms were similar to the OP.
it was a warm day, and i was running WOT down some back roads.
came to a stop sign, and when i got stopped i noticed a faint tapping or ticking type noise.
i assumed i would need to adjust the valves when i got home and off i went.
at this time the scoot was probably drained of coolant.
i got maybe a mile further down the road, and the engine wound down and quit.
i tried to restart it but the starter would spin normally then drag.
i raised the seat to have a look, and i knew as soon as i raised it, it was bad news.
the heat was unbelievable and the block was smoking.
i felt the radiator and it was cold.
i checked the oil, and i noticed the dipstick was partially melted.
i push it about a mile to the next house where i left it.
a couple hours later i finally got it home.
tried to start it again, the same thing with the starter.
at this point i didn't have much hope of it ever running again.
i got the cooling system all patched up, and got it back on the road.

the only thing i can figure that saved that engine was the roller bearings it uses for the crank journals.

so, instead of going into all the above dialog, i call it a soft seize.
that pretty well implies running an engine so hot it dies.
that is a different animal than running an engine without oil.

i gave to the technical aspects of the symptoms, in very clear language, far clearer than your post 169.

it's probably due more to the design of the 244 and to the quality of parts the chinese used in it.
by all rights, i should have at least expected a blown head gasket.

all i know is, i was riding that thing hard when it died.
and i can't find a better term to apply to the situation than a soft seize.
i do not care to comment further on this, okay?

Yep - providing the spark plug is out. Teeth look good. you should be able to grasp the variator (or fan, if the shroud is off) and easily turn the engine (proper direction only). See - w/o the plug there is no compression; the weak starter easily turns the engine since there is little resistance to turning. But with the plug in the moment the piston travels up and compresses what's in the cylinder chamber, there is a huge resistance built up. That's what stops the starter motor from being able to continue to turn the engine. But with the plug out it turns simply and easily. The odds of a "soft seize" or a grabbing starter clutch are slim since neither shows up with the plug removed. Still, no guarantees ... but step 1 should be to get a known good starter.

ps:  not to confuse you are this stage - get the starter motor and THEN move on - but thinking forward of what MIGHT then pop up.  In thinking about why your scooter initially stopped, one possibility is it ran out of gas.  Even if there is gas in the gas tank, if that gas doesn't get into the carb your engine runs out of gas and coasts to a halt, and then will not start again.  There are several possible causes (including at THIS moment, with a failed starter motor and no engine turning, lack of vacuum - which is needed for gas to get to the carb).  But the specific design of YOUR scooter comes into play.  So ---- is your gas tank below the floor, or above the engine (asking to find out if gravity alone would be enough to get gas from the tank to the carb).

That's pretty common - not any kind of a sign. I just removed the entire kick starter because it was useless and I got tired of messing with it to get it to do it's job.

BTW - I would think your clear fuel line would be 100% full of gas - not empty with 'some' trickling down. There is a valve inside the carb that actually allows the right amount of fuel in - there should be a constant supply to the carb, not a trickle. Maybe when you say 'trickle' you mean something other than what I'm thinking - but I would expect the line to be completely full all the time with not much evidence of movement (since it's full).

For an 'above engine" fuel tank you will probably not have an actual fuel pump (the fuel gets to the carb simply by gravity), but you WILL have a vacuum-operated petcock.  This shuts off the fuel supply when the engine is off, so the fuel does not over time drain thru the carb.  If there is no engine vacuum (for example, engine 'off' - or, starter not working properly) the petcock will remain closed and little or no gas will get to the carb.  A 'trickle' might indicate a partial clog (or malfunction) so that not ENOUGH fuel gets to the carb, especially at open throttle like when you were last riding.  Then you get no gas and the engine dies.  This can also be caused by a vacuum LEAK (very, very common).

Once you get a functioning starter - presuming your scooter doesn't just fire up and run - these things can be sorted thru.

a good way to determine if the starter clutch is slipping, is to watch the variator as you try to start the engine.
the variator should turn as long as the starter is engaged.