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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 26, 2015 15:08:43 GMT -5
He can bypass the solenoid and connect a car battery directly to the starter and see what happens . if the same thing happens then its either the starter or the st clutch . he can then try a new starter and if it does not work then its the starter clutch . very simple. Alright so hooked to the car battery there was no change, still one spin So the problem is the starter and /or starter clutch Is there a way I can test these 2 without just replacing them, also what is the thread size on the Freewheel? |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 26, 2015 15:59:14 GMT -5
First remove the spark plug and see if there is a change doing the same thing. Do this before going after anything more radical. No change means there is a problem beyond the starter motor. But if the engine with the plug removed (and thus zero compression) spins freely, I'd suspect your starter motor.
You never said if you put in a BBK. If so, a standard, OEM starter motor often lacks enough torque to spin the motor.
ps: in checking, you DID connect the jumper cables from the car battery as follows: black to engine ground, red touched directly to the screw connection on the starter motor itself (not just to the battery positive terminal) ..... right?
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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 26, 2015 16:58:29 GMT -5
First remove the spark plug and see if there is a change doing the same thing. Do this before going after anything more radical. No change means there is a problem beyond the starter motor. But if the engine with the plug removed (and thus zero compression) spins freely, I'd suspect your starter motor. You never said if you put in a BBK. If so, a standard, OEM starter motor often lacks enough torque to spin the motor. ps: in checking, you DID connect the jumper cables from the car battery as follows: black to engine ground, red touched directly to the screw connection on the starter motor itself (not just to the battery positive terminal) ..... right? Yes i connected black to engine ground (valve cover) and i removed the screw and wire from the starter and attached the red from battery to starter it instantly turned once and stopped No bbk Uni filter Aftermarket exhaust 115 main jet Advance cdi |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 17:09:39 GMT -5
what turned once, the starter or the engine?
and why are you automatically ruling out a soft seize when it can be a cause?
after seeing that you had an "advance" CDI, a soft seize becomes even more probable.
some of these engine will not tolerate high RPMs for an extended period.
added to this, how in the world did you even come close to getting a compression reading?
speaking of compression readings, you said post 10:
"When I try to start it, the cvt will give a slight turn and ill hear it trying to start, but only for a second".
apparently you meant the starter only turned once.
my question about compression now applies to the spark as well.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 17:40:09 GMT -5
to check the starter:
remove from engine.
replace starter wire nut back on to protect the upper threads.
attach black jumper wire to battery and starter housing, one of the mounting tabs.
attach red wire to battery.
hold starter down firmly, and touch red cable to starter terminal.
*CAUTION*
the starter is a high torque motor and it will try to get away from you.
hold it down firmly or put it in a vise.
the starter is a high current device.
you stand a good chance of ruining the start terminal if it isn't protected.
i suggest filling the terminal with nuts to keep this from happening.
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 26, 2015 17:41:28 GMT -5
Did you remove the spark plug and try again  ? |
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Post by pistonguy on Dec 26, 2015 17:51:25 GMT -5
Look at the Pictures of the Old Piston Again. what i posted was from my own experience, right down to the tapping noise and dragging starter. my engine died of excessive heat, the thing was so hot the block was smoking, the oil dipstick was partially melted. i'm amazed it ran after that. but it did, and i put many miles on it afterwards. what post are these pictures in? BTW, the crank journals in the 244 are roller bearings, not bushings. Your Symptoms aside. What the Piston look like After Any Seize. yo have your Old Trophy around to post up a pic? A Classic Cold Seize. Yes it did run enough to limp home.   |
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Post by pistonguy on Dec 26, 2015 17:54:03 GMT -5
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Post by pistonguy on Dec 26, 2015 17:58:26 GMT -5
I could use a Perfect Front (Thrust Face) pic, From what I can see the are No Sings of Any Seizure.
Lotsa Trash Impregnated into the Thrust Face.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 26, 2015 17:59:32 GMT -5
what i posted was from my own experience, right down to the tapping noise and dragging starter. my engine died of excessive heat, the thing was so hot the block was smoking, the oil dipstick was partially melted. i'm amazed it ran after that. but it did, and i put many miles on it afterwards. what post are these pictures in? BTW, the crank journals in the 244 are roller bearings, not bushings. Your Symptoms aside. What the Piston look like After Any Seize. yo have your Old Trophy around to post up a pic? A Classic Cold Seize. Yes it did run enough to limp home. mine would only turn about a half rev then drag through the rest of the cycle. i tried to start it immediately after it died, and twice more, once when i got it to a friends house, then again after i got it home. same symptoms. i never tried it again until after i repaired the cooling system 2 or 3 days later. i didn't expect it to start, but it did, and i put a lot of miles on it after that with no apparent engine damage. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 26, 2015 18:20:09 GMT -5
Guys! How about we try and guide Murky through this a step at a time, so he has at least a LITTLE chance of figuring out what is going on? Sure - this COULD be a bunch of things --- but if he is hopping about from one theory to the next he will never, ever, get anywhere. This stuff is interesting to us (esp the stuff P-Guy posts, which is REALLY interesting always) ... I feel we are doing more to confuse than to help at this point.
First step - see if the starter or clutch is causing the inability to turn over.
ps: dollar - a 150 does not have a bolt on the starter but a screw hole. And the motor, while in fact a torquey little thing, is not at all as torquey as that in a 244cc engine. You can easily hold it in your hand while running it.
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Post by murkyapricot on Dec 26, 2015 18:56:17 GMT -5
Guys! How about we try and guide Murky through this a step at a time, so he has at least a LITTLE chance of figuring out what is going on? Sure - this COULD be a bunch of things --- but if he is hopping about from one theory to the next he will never, ever, get anywhere. This stuff is interesting to us (esp the stuff P-Guy posts, which is REALLY interesting always) ... I feel we are doing more to confuse than to help at this point. First step - see if the starter or clutch is causing the inability to turn over. ps: dollar - a 150 does not have a bolt on the starter but a screw hole. And the motor, while in fact a torquey little thing, is not at all as torquey as that in a 244cc engine. You can easily hold it in your hand while running it. With the spark plug removed the starter keeps spinning it doesn't stop Now does this mean the starter motor isn't putting out enough power to start the engine? If so how does the starter suddenly not being strong enough make the scooter die while mid ride? |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 26, 2015 20:25:08 GMT -5
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Post by pistonguy on Dec 27, 2015 7:19:47 GMT -5
Video, still getting same 30psi compression  Not gunna start or get a test when its like in the video above. need to hear back from this Guy hopefully with good news. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 27, 2015 7:54:34 GMT -5
Guys! How about we try and guide Murky through this a step at a time, so he has at least a LITTLE chance of figuring out what is going on? Sure - this COULD be a bunch of things --- but if he is hopping about from one theory to the next he will never, ever, get anywhere. This stuff is interesting to us (esp the stuff P-Guy posts, which is REALLY interesting always) ... I feel we are doing more to confuse than to help at this point. First step - see if the starter or clutch is causing the inability to turn over. ps: dollar - a 150 does not have a bolt on the starter but a screw hole. And the motor, while in fact a torquey little thing, is not at all as torquey as that in a 244cc engine. You can easily hold it in your hand while running it. With the spark plug removed the starter keeps spinning it doesn't stop Now does this mean the starter motor isn't putting out enough power to start the engine? If so how does the starter suddenly not being strong enough make the scooter die while mid ride? since the starter is bad, it wouldn't hurt to tear it down to see if it can be salvaged. these starters are "overbuilt", they employ heavy gauge wiring and other sturdy parts. what usually goes wrong with them is that the commutator fouls or the brushes wear down too far. the commutator can be cleaned by piece of emory clothe. i don't know about a source for brushes. just remember one thing, it might be impossible to reassemble the starter because you won't be able to retain the brushes to clear the commutator. since the starter is already "bad", it certainly wouldn't hurt to give it a try. plus, you might figure out a way to hold the brushes during reassembly. |
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