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Putting miles on those Diablos
Posts: 73 
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Joined: Jul 30, 2015 14:52:52 GMT -5
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Post by thecollector on Dec 1, 2015 13:52:14 GMT -5
I am thinking of doing a CVT upgrade and have been reading up on the subject. As the weather around here has slipped below freezing I do not plan on starting the project soon but will wait until early next year. I am looking for more speed at the high end and am willing to sacrifice acceleration off the line. I have not, but plan to, re-jet the carb and open up my air intake at around the same time as the CVT change.
I have seen recommendations that different manufacturers parts should not be mixed together. I am thinking about the NCY kit as my choice. I was wondering why they have a 1,000 rpm main spring with this kit? I've seen many people recommend a 1,500 rpm main spring for people doing my kind of upgrade.
Would the spring from this kit get me the right kind of shifting or should I get a 1,500 spring at the same time?
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Post by scooter on Dec 1, 2015 14:19:27 GMT -5
I am thinking of doing a CVT upgrade and have been reading up on the subject. As the weather around here has slipped below freezing I do not plan on starting the project soon but will wait until early next year. I am looking for more speed at the high end and am willing to sacrifice acceleration off the line. I have not, but plan to, re-jet the carb and open up my air intake at around the same time as the CVT change.
I have seen recommendations that different manufacturers parts should not be mixed together. I am thinking about the NCY kit as my choice. I was wondering why they have a 1,000 rpm main spring with this kit? I've seen many people recommend a 1,500 rpm main spring for people doing my kind of upgrade.
Would the spring from this kit get me the right kind of shifting or should I get a 1,500 spring at the same time?
The laziest spring should be best for top speed. |
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Post by steve on Dec 1, 2015 20:51:18 GMT -5
Get a new variator. One of those DLH variators. Use between 7 and 8 gram weights. Use the 1500 torque spring, with some heavier weights than you usually use, and get a high quality belt. Your top speed will be as good as it can get that way, while still being able to climb hills.
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Post by ricardoguitars on Dec 1, 2015 21:48:16 GMT -5
The most cost effective way to gain top speed is to change gears, messing with the clutch and variator is fine, but you will have to spend more and get less noticeable results that those you get with gears; of course, if you can do the gears AND the clutch/variator, that would be optimal.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 1, 2015 23:42:05 GMT -5
The Hoca variator was the best for my Lance 150 and on my Aprilia it was staying stock and installing the Dr Pulley sliders. You are not going to get 250cc speeds from a 150 though and are only talking a few more mph. Go overboard with taller gears and such and you can end up with a bike that does not have enough power to overcome its drag coefficient and go over 40 mph. You need more HP and Torque in order to make drastic increases in speed however remember that the minimal brakes, tires and frame on most 150cc bike won't be up to the task. Then you hear about people with broken frames, snapped engine hangers, etc.
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Sophomore Rider
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Posts: 139
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Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
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Post by dyoung1167 on Dec 2, 2015 22:41:25 GMT -5
it is the sellers who claim to not intermingle. good parts work well together and very few know who their father is. may the force be with you chinese scooter son.
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 2, 2015 23:21:00 GMT -5
Just went thru an NCY clutch install (plus gear change) and an exam of several variators. See below in the thread for "Martin's SuperEngine" --- last several pages. There is also a terrific link to a writeup on DansGarageTalk about transmission issues. About a year ago several here did a long comparison of variators - the DHL being the cheapest (and best one to avoid).
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Freshman Rider
Currently Offline
Putting miles on those Diablos
Posts: 73
Likes: 16
Joined: Jul 30, 2015 14:52:52 GMT -5
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Post by thecollector on Dec 3, 2015 16:09:27 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses.
I am not expecting 250cc plus speeds but hoping for more than a 5mph increase as well as NOT losing speed on hills. I agree my type of bike would not be very safe or stable at much increased speeds (my current setup is about 55 mph WOT). My home is at 4800' elevation and my scooting buddies like climbing hills around here that are 1000 to 2500 feet above the Valley floor. I just don't want to be left in the dust THAT easily on the big runs on some of the flat outs.
Assuming we don't have a long winter inversion I'll report back in a couple months with how it goes.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 4, 2015 5:09:21 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses.
I am not expecting 250cc plus speeds but hoping for more than a 5mph increase as well as NOT losing speed on hills. I agree my type of bike would not be very safe or stable at much increased speeds (my current setup is about 55 mph WOT). My home is at 4800' elevation and my scooting buddies like climbing hills around here that are 1000 to 2500 feet above the Valley floor. I just don't want to be left in the dust THAT easily on the big runs on some of the flat outs.
Assuming we don't have a long winter inversion I'll report back in a couple months with how it goes. I got what you are indicating by using the Hoca variator and 115mm drive face with the included 12 gram rollers on my Lance Vintage. www.partsforscooters.com/169-24 |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 5, 2015 4:08:55 GMT -5
I think most do not realize that the stock drive faces are 115mm
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 5, 2015 7:03:02 GMT -5
I think most do not realize that the stock drive faces are 115mm Yes the outer pulley is 115mm the stock inner in 107mm, the larger pulley and different angle ramps is the difference. here is a link you should read it may bring some insight to your decision, scooterdoc.proboards.com/thread/11542/#ixzz3mIqFApF0John |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 5, 2015 7:29:50 GMT -5
the cheapest way of increasing top end would be to increase roller weight.
however, this will only increase top end by maybe 10mph or less.
i would have to agree with changing the final drive gear ratio.
this will give maximum benefit, but would also mean readjusting roller weight to keep the engine rpm at max torque.
the problem with changing the final drive gearing is finding the gears.
i understand the desire to get more speed from your bike, but you can only get so much before you start over extending the capabilities and stability of the frame in question.
so be careful.
you can, of course, get a bigger bike.
that was the major factor of purchasing my 250, my 50cc just didn't have the speed.
i miss my "little bitty" 50cc though.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 5, 2015 10:44:56 GMT -5
Remember that when you start changing gear ratios that you can end up without enough HP at the rear wheel to take advantage of it. Wind resistance and drag starts building dramatically over 35 mph and you need about double you HP for every 15 to 25% gain in top speed beyond 65 mph on a 150. While a well set up 150cc scooter can run 65 mph a 300cc does not get you to 130 mph but only about 80/  mph and a 500cc scooter only usually gets you just past 100 mph. To double the top speed of a 150cc scooter you are usually looking at going to an 850cc bike unless you are investing in radical performance upgrades that can greatly increase maintenance costs and reduce the overall useful life of the bike. The route I took for more speed while maintaining reliability and economy on my 250 was reducing drag by installing a Puig Sport Fairing instead of a windshield. This made the most dramatic change in performance over 35 mph and gave me about 10 mph more usable top speed. Wearing a full face helmet helped further reduce drag. Installing sliders instead of rollers allowed the OEM variator to open wider and close tighter giving me more HP at the rear wheel a takeoff and allows it to close up tighter for better top speed while still being reactive enough to deal with changed in grade and headwinds. Wearing motorcycle clothing that zips and cinches to the body without flapping or catching air will help too as any clothing that billows or flaps like a sail is going to slow you down. Side cases especially soft bags while convenient can slow you down sometimes very dramatically depending on the design. |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 6, 2015 20:28:53 GMT -5
I think most do not realize that the stock drive faces are 115mm Yes the outer pulley is 115mm the stock inner in 107mm, the larger pulley and different angle ramps is the difference. here is a link you should read it may bring some insight to your decision, scooterdoc.proboards.com/thread/11542/#ixzz3mIqFApF0John I was referring only to the drive face . most refer to the outer part of the variator assembly as the drive face. Many do not realize that the stock drive face is 115 and buy a new one separately from the new 115 variator. Some assemblies come with a new drive face , but actually I the stock one will work just fine with a high performance 115 variator. |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 6, 2015 21:02:22 GMT -5
I was referring only to the drive face . most refer to the outer part of the variator assembly as the drive face. Many do not realize that the stock drive face is 115 and buy a new one separately from the new 115 variator. Some assemblies come with a new drive face , but actually I the stock one will work just fine with a high performance 115 variator. Agreed John |
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mph and a 500cc scooter only usually gets you just past 100 mph. To double the top speed of a 150cc scooter you are usually looking at going to an 850cc bike unless you are investing in radical performance upgrades that can greatly increase maintenance costs and reduce the overall useful life of the bike.