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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 3, 2015 12:04:24 GMT -5
Should contact as many ebay sellers of american koso as possible to get a wide eye view of the situation and be able to tell who's just stamping brand labels on stuff and who's going through the trouble of getting the parts from taiwan. TBA , how many of the eBay sellers are going to be straight up with us ? I doubt they are going to say their product is a fake Or that they get their Koso's from an untrustworthy source. Yes we may be able to catch a seller in a lie but tba , what is that going to prove at this point ? We already know that the Koso's being sold are junk . it seems as if everyone is selling the same crap product. When you sell a product with Knicks ,scratches and Gouge's in them , you should know that there is a problem somewhere. Tba if I received a product like that , I would never try to sell it . the product would be returned or if I cannot return it I would take a hit or sell them at a discount price and mention the imperfections. Selling a product like that makes your company look bad and throws out major red flags that the product is not legit. Yeah, George. It is certainly in Koso's best interest to defend their name and help identify what fraudulent product is being sold. Otherwise they will never be able to sell here because their name will have become associated with crap. Hope they will get involved. |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 3, 2015 12:10:30 GMT -5
Here is a pic of the variator I ordered . I'll post a few more pics later. I know quality is sometimes hard to tell from pics , but this k&s looks decent.  |
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Post by lain on Apr 3, 2015 12:12:23 GMT -5
Should contact as many ebay sellers of american koso as possible to get a wide eye view of the situation and be able to tell who's just stamping brand labels on stuff and who's going through the trouble of getting the parts from taiwan. Lain - you seem to think sellers - especially ebay sellers - know what they are selling. I doubt that. Koso (as an example) is the designer and manufacturer. THEY know their product; others only read data sheets. Koso will sell to a national importer ("their agent in America) who is a "manufacturer's rep". They then sell to distributors, and these then sell to the retailer. the least knowledgeable of all is the retailer. If you want to know something about Koso products the best thing to do is to go to koso - which we are trying (hopefully they will respond). It would be great if engineers at Koso would work with us to identify counterfeits so the Koso name is not associated with low quality product (the "koso" variators we are seeing in this market are quite low quality and not consistent quality or design). Same with "Gates belts". I never said any of that man, lol. There is a way of going about things when you ask ebay sellers that will give you the story about how they came upon a product. When I shop around on ebay I usually message a half a dozen sellers or so about the same product that have different prices, asking if they know the manufacturer, if they use the product, how fresh is the product etc. I mean if you go right out and be like "yo is dis legit or should I do a 360 and walk away." lol.... I've been following the thread, learning more about how to spot counterfeits and such. So far I think you guys are doing an excellent job in inspecting the products and comparing them against other products. Just keep on doing what you'e doing! |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 3, 2015 12:12:50 GMT -5
Here is a pic of the variator I ordered . I'll post a few more pics later. I know quality is sometimes hard to tell from pics , but this k&s looks decent. The good thing is that its def a different cast then the koso and dlh variators. It was about twice as much in cost also. Depending on were u get your koso. |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 3, 2015 12:17:48 GMT -5
Lain - you seem to think sellers - especially ebay sellers - know what they are selling. I doubt that. Koso (as an example) is the designer and manufacturer. THEY know their product; others only read data sheets. Koso will sell to a national importer ("their agent in America) who is a "manufacturer's rep". They then sell to distributors, and these then sell to the retailer. the least knowledgeable of all is the retailer. If you want to know something about Koso products the best thing to do is to go to koso - which we are trying (hopefully they will respond). It would be great if engineers at Koso would work with us to identify counterfeits so the Koso name is not associated with low quality product (the "koso" variators we are seeing in this market are quite low quality and not consistent quality or design). Same with "Gates belts". I never said any of that man, lol. There is a way of going about things when you ask ebay sellers that will give you the story about how they came upon a product. When I shop around on ebay I usually message a half a dozen sellers or so about the same product that have different prices, asking if they know the manufacturer, if they use the product, how fresh is the product etc. I mean if you go right out and be like "yo is dis legit or should I do a 360 and walk away." lol.... I've been following the thread, learning more about how to spot counterfeits and such. So far I think you guys are doing an excellent job in inspecting the products and comparing them against other products. Just keep on doing what you'e doing! Your right , there are ways of finding out info " I carry one on my hip ,lol " no seriously , you can ask certain questions , but I think at this point most seller have no clue if the place they are buying from is selling a legit product so the info we will get will probably be bad, or by now , after being asked about the product over and over by multiple people they have learned just to lie to sell their product. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 3, 2015 12:38:06 GMT -5
Lain - you seem to think sellers - especially ebay sellers - know what they are selling. I doubt that. Koso (as an example) is the designer and manufacturer. THEY know their product; others only read data sheets. Koso will sell to a national importer ("their agent in America) who is a "manufacturer's rep". They then sell to distributors, and these then sell to the retailer. the least knowledgeable of all is the retailer. If you want to know something about Koso products the best thing to do is to go to koso - which we are trying (hopefully they will respond). It would be great if engineers at Koso would work with us to identify counterfeits so the Koso name is not associated with low quality product (the "koso" variators we are seeing in this market are quite low quality and not consistent quality or design). Same with "Gates belts". I never said any of that man, lol. There is a way of going about things when you ask ebay sellers that will give you the story about how they came upon a product. When I shop around on ebay I usually message a half a dozen sellers or so about the same product that have different prices, asking if they know the manufacturer, if they use the product, how fresh is the product etc. I mean if you go right out and be like "yo is dis legit or should I do a 360 and walk away." lol.... I've been following the thread, learning more about how to spot counterfeits and such. So far I think you guys are doing an excellent job in inspecting the products and comparing them against other products. Just keep on doing what you'e doing! But Lain - ebay sellers don't KNOW and can't possibly find out! Koso sells ZERO variators (for GY6) here in America. They have no sales agent or sales channel. EVERY variator coming to us that is marked "Koso" is either a counterfeit or a real Koso manufactured product brought out the back door of the factory (often meaning it;'s a factory reject) and sold through some people, eventually being picked up by a retail seller here for sale to us (on Ebay or through a store). There is no way a retailer could trace this back to the source since that would mean finding out snuck the product out the back door - and no one will disclose that.Unless Koso gets involved and helps we just can't tell. |
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Post by lain on Apr 3, 2015 12:42:17 GMT -5
I never said any of that man, lol. There is a way of going about things when you ask ebay sellers that will give you the story about how they came upon a product. When I shop around on ebay I usually message a half a dozen sellers or so about the same product that have different prices, asking if they know the manufacturer, if they use the product, how fresh is the product etc. I mean if you go right out and be like "yo is dis legit or should I do a 360 and walk away." lol.... I've been following the thread, learning more about how to spot counterfeits and such. So far I think you guys are doing an excellent job in inspecting the products and comparing them against other products. Just keep on doing what you'e doing! Your right , there are ways of finding out info " I carry one on my hip ,lol " no seriously , you can ask certain questions , but I think at this point most seller have no clue if the place they are buying from is selling a legit product so the info we will get will probably be bad, or by now , after being asked about the product over and over by multiple people they have learned just to lie to sell their product. Well, for instance, I have one seller on ebay I always buy certain parts from because he works with them and uses them and has experience and knowledge and often has good advice. Usually if I get a response where the seller just says "I don't know" or they give the long version of they don't know which can be annoying, I end up just never buying from them. I don't try to ask questions that may put them in a scenario to lie. Or I'll try to read between the lines if they have a long story about their product. Or if they simply say they are just selling it to make money, I just outright ask them, where'd you get it? lol Sometimes they just don't respond but yeah. That's why I say ask a bunch of people, the more views the better the picture will be. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 3, 2015 12:58:35 GMT -5
Your right , there are ways of finding out info " I carry one on my hip ,lol " no seriously , you can ask certain questions , but I think at this point most seller have no clue if the place they are buying from is selling a legit product so the info we will get will probably be bad, or by now , after being asked about the product over and over by multiple people they have learned just to lie to sell their product. Well, for instance, I have one seller on ebay I always buy certain parts from because he works with them and uses them and has experience and knowledge and often has good advice. Usually if I get a response where the seller just says "I don't know" or they give the long version of they don't know which can be annoying, I end up just never buying from them. I don't try to ask questions that may put them in a scenario to lie. Or I'll try to read between the lines if they have a long story about their product. Or if they simply say they are just selling it to make money, I just outright ask them, where'd you get it? lol Sometimes they just don't respond but yeah. That's why I say ask a bunch of people, the more views the better the picture will be. OK, but you understand that for illegitimate products (not sold through the manufacturer's distribution channel) the retail seller can't possibly find out what factory they really came from ... right? |
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Post by lain on Apr 3, 2015 15:11:29 GMT -5
Well, for instance, I have one seller on ebay I always buy certain parts from because he works with them and uses them and has experience and knowledge and often has good advice. Usually if I get a response where the seller just says "I don't know" or they give the long version of they don't know which can be annoying, I end up just never buying from them. I don't try to ask questions that may put them in a scenario to lie. Or I'll try to read between the lines if they have a long story about their product. Or if they simply say they are just selling it to make money, I just outright ask them, where'd you get it? lol Sometimes they just don't respond but yeah. That's why I say ask a bunch of people, the more views the better the picture will be. OK, but you understand that for illegitimate products (not sold through the manufacturer's distribution channel) the retail seller can't possibly find out what factory they really came from ... right? Yes, that's my point. If there are any legit products, they may tell you they buy it from a guy in taiwan or something. |
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Post by scooter on Apr 3, 2015 15:36:03 GMT -5
Here is a pic of the variator I ordered . I'll post a few more pics later. I know quality is sometimes hard to tell from pics , but this k&s looks decent. The good thing is that its def a different cast then the koso and dlh variators. It was about twice as much in cost also. Depending on were u get your koso. That's a very nice looking finish. They even gave you an extra mm or two by cutting into the side walls. Looking forward to hearing how it works, Geh! |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 3, 2015 17:30:37 GMT -5
The good thing is that its def a different cast then the koso and dlh variators. It was about twice as much in cost also. Depending on were u get your koso. That's a very nice looking finish. They even gave you an extra mm or two by cutting into the side walls. Looking forward to hearing how it works, Geh! Yeah , those ramps look a little longer ! Meaning possible higher belt travel. I can't wait to get it. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Apr 3, 2015 17:42:57 GMT -5
Here is a pic of the variator I ordered . I'll post a few more pics later. I know quality is sometimes hard to tell from pics , but this k&s looks decent. The good thing is that its def a different cast then the koso and dlh variators. It was about twice as much in cost also. Depending on were u get your koso. i WOULD BE REALLY HAPPY THE MANUFACTURER'S NAME IS IN THE CASTING ITSELF. BEST GUARANTEE YOU ARE ACTUALLY GETTING A REAL PART !  |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 3, 2015 18:57:25 GMT -5
I noticed the K&S in the cast , and yeah , the ramps do look a bit longer then the koso. I'll make the comparisons to the Koso's I have . I'll measure ramp length , weight , and I'll do a comparison in the quality compared to the Koso's .
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Post by scooter on Apr 4, 2015 0:55:23 GMT -5
Good comments. This was to be a comparison of the different variators out there, to help some day in selecting new ones ... which are good, which not so good, and why. There are lots of writeups about how to TUNE the thing after you have already bought one, but only anecdotal comments on which is "best". I hoped this would become a sort of library - with people adding lines as they measure their own variators. Then we all could buy smart. About tuning: Though there are lots of write ups about tuning, I have not found any that are very good. Maybe the authors skip too much, or maybe they actually don't understand all that well what they are doing. It occurs to me YOU could write a GREAT step-by-step everyone could understand and follow to get the most out of their engine. It would be a really good long-term way of 'giving back'. Maybe think about it? Sorry, RCQ. I walked in on the middle of the conversation and I misunderstood your intent. Great work man. |
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Post by geh3333 on Apr 4, 2015 1:43:51 GMT -5
Good comments. This was to be a comparison of the different variators out there, to help some day in selecting new ones ... which are good, which not so good, and why. There are lots of writeups about how to TUNE the thing after you have already bought one, but only anecdotal comments on which is "best". I hoped this would become a sort of library - with people adding lines as they measure their own variators. Then we all could buy smart. About tuning: Though there are lots of write ups about tuning, I have not found any that are very good. Maybe the authors skip too much, or maybe they actually don't understand all that well what they are doing. It occurs to me YOU could write a GREAT step-by-step everyone could understand and follow to get the most out of their engine. It would be a really good long-term way of 'giving back'. Maybe think about it? Sorry, RCQ. I walked in on the middle of the conversation and I misunderstood your intent. Great work man. If anyone has the extra cash and is willing to buy a new variator " one in which hasn't been mentioned " and give feedback , that would be very helpful also. It would be nice for others to know what variators are actually worth buying and work properly. It would also be very useful info for sellers , so they know which variators to stay away from and which ones are worth selling. |
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