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Post by jerseyboy on Mar 13, 2015 22:04:58 GMT -5
Holy molly this thread took off from my last visit,,leave for a few hours and there are 20 more posts...lol..you guys!!!
My motor kicked back so hard a few times I thought the starter gear and the cam stopper was going to break into pieces,,that doesn't happen anymore,,after the blue CDI I got from Progress Racing which I think are the same as Johns( I need to shoot it with a light),,and my BBK,,its starts smoother than when it was stock..
Im from New Joisey...hehehehe......welcome to New Joisey,,,now go home!!
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 22:20:01 GMT -5
Holy molly this thread took off from my last visit,,leave for a few hours and there are 20 more posts...lol..you guys!!! My motor kicked back so hard a few times I thought the starter gear and the cam stopper was going to break into pieces,,that doesn't happen anymore,,after the blue CDI I got from Progress Racing which I think are the same as Johns( I need to shoot it with a light),,and my BBK,,its starts smoother than when it was stock.. Im from New Joisey...hehehehe......welcome to New Joisey,,,now go home!! We have the same cdi , and the only time I ever get the kickback is when the battery is low . I sound like a parrot, lol . I have a question for you jersey . I wonder if we are talking about the same thing , that is when talking about the kickbacks. Maybe I am mistaken . when batteries were bad sometimes my scoot would turn over quick but almost skip. And if I kept the ignition in it would do it over and over. It would almost make a pop noise on each quick rotation . like it was out of sync not a steady rotation . is this what u experience , and is this what we would call a kickback. For some reason I think I'm mistaken about it being a kickback. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Mar 13, 2015 22:40:20 GMT -5
Holy molly this thread took off from my last visit,,leave for a few hours and there are 20 more posts...lol..you guys!!! My motor kicked back so hard a few times I thought the starter gear and the cam stopper was going to break into pieces,,that doesn't happen anymore,,after the blue CDI I got from Progress Racing which I think are the same as Johns( I need to shoot it with a light),,and my BBK,,its starts smoother than when it was stock.. Im from New Joisey...hehehehe......welcome to New Joisey,,,now go home!! We have the same cdi , and the only time I ever get the kickback is when the battery is low . I sound like a parrot, lol . I have a question for you jersey . I wonder if we are talking about the same thing , that is when talking about the kickbacks. Maybe I am mistaken . when batteries were bad sometimes my scoot would turn over quick but almost skip. And if I kept the ignition in it would do it over and over. It would almost make a pop noise on each quick rotation . like it was out of sync not a steady rotation . is this what u experience , and is this what we would call a kickback. For some reason I think I'm mistaken about it being a kickback. There was a good writeup about this a little while back, Mr. GEH-Obama-Lover. Here, first, is the problem: those cheapo "racing CDIs" that advance the ignitionm angle and remove the rpm limit, have a FIXED advance. It's the same at 100 rpm and at 6000 rpm (the advance is the same, that is). The problem then is at first start. The spark actually happens BEFORE the compression cycle is complete. The result is the sudden reversal of the direction of the engine since the piston gets pushed back down instead of forward. Hope that makes sense, since it's figurative. Now, if you have a reverse stop on the valve it will prevent this - BUT - it will bring the entire engine to a sudden, near violent stop. Since you usually do not take your hand off the "Start" button the starter then continues to drive the engine forward. This may repeat several times before the speed (rpm) gets high enough to push the crank past TDC when the advanced spark happens. RESULT: You may not have one of those 'anti-reverse' claws on your valves, so this may not happen in your case. But with those who DO there is a loud CLANG; the engine clearly comes to a complete stop, and then starts spinning again with the starter. It's pretty violent. The OEM CDI does not produce this problem (not advanced angle). However, it also slaps performance down at driving RPMs since it has no advance there also. Johns CDIs have a small (or no) advance at low RPMs, then the "racing" advance at higher RPMs - best of both. |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 22:48:45 GMT -5
We have the same cdi , and the only time I ever get the kickback is when the battery is low . I sound like a parrot, lol . I have a question for you jersey . I wonder if we are talking about the same thing , that is when talking about the kickbacks. Maybe I am mistaken . when batteries were bad sometimes my scoot would turn over quick but almost skip. And if I kept the ignition in it would do it over and over. It would almost make a pop noise on each quick rotation . like it was out of sync not a steady rotation . is this what u experience , and is this what we would call a kickback. For some reason I think I'm mistaken about it being a kickback. There was a good writeup about this a little while back, Mr. GEH-Obama-Lover. Here, first, is the problem: those cheapo "racing CDIs" that advance the ignitionm angle and remove the rpm limit, have a FIXED advance. It's the same at 100 rpm and at 6000 rpm (the advance is the same, that is). The problem then is at first start. The spark actually happens BEFORE the compression cycle is complete. The result is the sudden reversal of the direction of the engine since the piston gets pushed back down instead of forward. Hope that makes sense, since it's figurative. Now, if you have a reverse stop on the valve it will prevent this - BUT - it will bring the entire engine to a sudden, near violent stop. Since you usually do not take your hand off the "Start" button the starter then continues to drive the engine forward. This may repeat several times before the speed (rpm) gets high enough to push the crank past TDC when the advanced spark happens. RESULT: You may not have one of those 'anti-reverse' claws on your valves, so this may not happen in your case. But with those who DO there is a loud CLANG; the engine clearly comes to a complete stop, and then starts spinning again with the starter. It's pretty violent. The OEM CDI does not produce this problem (not advanced angle). However, it also slaps performance down at driving RPMs since it has no advance there also. Johns CDIs have a small (or no) advance at low RPMs, then the "racing" advance at higher RPMs - best of both. I think it has happened before but not as often as I first thought. I've had it sound kinda awful , but most of the time I would get that out of sync feeling. I'm pretty certain I have the cam stop on the rocker arm assembly. If it happens again "probably won't until my battery goes bad",I'll record it. Tba its sorta like a rotation then backfire rotation then backfire. I have to let off the hit the ignition again. I've hit the ignition before and got the awful clank then stop before , but not often . and again only with a bad battery. |
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Post by lain on Mar 13, 2015 23:22:41 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys but I try to only hold the starter button for a second. If it doesn't fire up try again a second later. I like to have it tuned to start easily though, I don't like having issues starting that could drain the battery and leave me stranded somewhere, soooo not fun....
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 23:46:36 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys but I try to only hold the starter button for a second. If it doesn't fire up try again a second later. I like to have it tuned to start easily though, I don't like having issues starting that could drain the battery and leave me stranded somewhere, soooo not fun.... My scoot starts really good with a new battery. She even idles at 1500rpms. A dead battery for me is not good . I removed the kick start assembly . it never worked good . it sounded like the gears were getting hung up , not real smooth. I didn't want something to happen and the kick start gear somehow get out of place and catch while riding . now that would be something, lol |
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Post by lain on Mar 14, 2015 0:02:01 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys but I try to only hold the starter button for a second. If it doesn't fire up try again a second later. I like to have it tuned to start easily though, I don't like having issues starting that could drain the battery and leave me stranded somewhere, soooo not fun.... My scoot starts really good with a new battery. She even idles at 1500rpms. A dead battery for me is not good . I removed the kick start assembly . it never worked good . it sounded like the gears were getting hung up , not real smooth. I didn't want something to happen and the kick start gear somehow get out of place and catch while riding . now that would be something, lol Not sure how it is setup on the 150cc CVT, but in my 50cc CVT shortcase my case is currently cracked in half and I haven't had any issues with the broken kickstarter assembly getting in the way or anything. I have even heard the lever drop on hard bumps before but it just throws the idle gear back into it's place if it comes near the variator. |
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Post by tvnacman on Mar 14, 2015 6:17:50 GMT -5
the fixed advanced timing cdi's will make a stock engine kick back too just not as noticeable with a higher compression bbk engine. Keep in mind if its kicking back because of timing it will be worse with a weak battery.
John
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Post by jerseyboy on Mar 14, 2015 10:20:55 GMT -5
Kickback for me only happened with the fixed cheap advanced timing CDI's,,it was like the motor would go right up to the compression stroke or just before it,,then it would fire too soon and send the motor spinning backwards really fast,,it then would slam the cam stopper,,which I no longer have,,but sometimes it seems like the starter gear would take a beating if it was still engaged.
I have not had a weak battery yet,,Im still using the stock junk Chinese battery on its 3rd season and still going strong...we will see lol.
I couldn't see parts lasting too long with that CDI in there,,I'm glad i found this blue one,,I really need to shoot it with a light like John said,,maybe its just a stock CDI with no rev limiter,,who knows???
Tom
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