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Post by gift on Mar 10, 2015 18:12:09 GMT -5
Sorry the image was not inserted.this is the one I mentioned about top part deposition.
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Post by mopojo on Mar 10, 2015 18:35:03 GMT -5
Edit: My bad...
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Post by onewheeldrive on Mar 10, 2015 21:33:14 GMT -5
Nothing is jumping out at me yet. Are there any deep scratches or anything like that in the cylinder? It looked like there was some scoring on the side of the piston. I'm on my phone, maybe the pics will be bigger on my laptop.
Have you looked in the transmission area (cvt) where the belt, clutch, and variator are?
It's a bit challenging here because A) we don't know what the symptoms were beforehand B)The mechanic thinks the engine is bad (still in the back of my head-- not convinced either way) C) The top end is off, so were kind of working backwards a bit
Usually its check the fuel/carb, air, spark and stuff like the valves/compression.... first.
The crank also has two other bearings that can fail-- and can be checked if you take the variator off for one side, and the flywheel off on the other, both by wiggling the shaft on each side checking for play.
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Post by gift on Mar 10, 2015 22:19:36 GMT -5
Nothing is jumping out at me yet. Are there any deep scratches or anything like that in the cylinder? It looked like there was some scoring on the side of the piston. I'm on my phone, maybe the pics will be bigger on my laptop. Have you looked in the transmission area (cvt) where the belt, clutch, and variator are? It's a bit challenging here because A) we don't know what the symptoms were beforehand B)The mechanic thinks the engine is bad (still in the back of my head-- not convinced either way) C) The top end is off, so were kind of working backwards a bit Usually its check the fuel/carb, air, spark and stuff like the valves/compression.... first. The crank also has two other bearings that can fail-- and can be checked if you take the variator off for one side, and the flywheel off on the other, both by wiggling the shaft on each side checking for play. Yes, I know. My bad! I jumped to deep inside without checking those first few steps. When I got the scooter back from the shop, many things were disconnected and the only thing in my head was bad engine so I rushed to take the engine apart. Now I guess I will try to see if I can get the cylinder honed, clean the piston, take the variator off, and inspect CVT system while waiting for the parts to come. Haha these can keep me occupied for many days. For the cylinder, I did not see any deep scratch inside just the top part in the picture that has about 1-2mm black carbon ring cover. I will try to clean these out tomorrow.
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Post by JerryScript on Mar 11, 2015 2:51:35 GMT -5
The cylinder looks fine to me as well, a bit of cleaning up and re-honing, then re-install with a new set of rings properly gapped and offset and you should be good to go. While it may not have been necessary to do a complete tear down, by the time you are finished, you will be on your way to being a decent scooter mechanic, and can brag to your friends that you rebuilt your engine yourself!
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Post by gift on Mar 11, 2015 10:31:27 GMT -5
I just hung up with the mechanic shop owner. He thought the top end was bad. I told him I took that off and found that the piston top was all black and covered with carbon. Now I am going to clean that but I need to have the cylinder honed before I put the new ring in. I asked if he could help me with that and he said that is not how we do business. So I asked how much and he said it would be $65-70 EXCLUDING labor work. I think I am done with this shop.
We have another shop in town. I will try to see if I could have the job done over there.
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Post by JerryScript on Mar 11, 2015 13:23:20 GMT -5
For less than $70 bucks, you can buy a honing tool and a drill, $45 depending on the type and complexity. If you can't find a shop that will do it cheap, watch videos on youtube to see how it's done, and you might be tempted to do it yourself. Here's one that shows how easy it is:
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Post by onewheeldrive on Mar 11, 2015 13:29:10 GMT -5
It's definitely not normal for top ends (or cranks) to fail at those miles.
The good thing is, your rod bearing looked fine from the video. Definitely wouldn't want to put a new top on there with a bad one.
Did you pull the trigger on the 83cc?
Also, the pic of the head you took that shows the exhaust port, appears to be missing the gasket-- the little ring that fits into the opening. It may have fallen out when taking the exhaust off?
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Post by gift on Mar 11, 2015 22:12:01 GMT -5
For less than $70 bucks, you can buy a honing tool and a drill, $45 depending on the type and complexity. If you can't find a shop that will do it cheap, watch videos on youtube to see how it's done, and you might be tempted to do it yourself. Here's one that shows how easy it is: Thanks for the video Jerry. I think I am going to buy a hone and borrow my friend drill for this. What do you guys think about this hone? www.ebay.com/itm/2-STONE-MASTER-CYLINDER-BRAKE-HONE-13-16-TO-2-1-2-F-S-/270792644617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0c7fd809 Would it be enough for my need? Also this scootdawg.proboards.com/thread/49037 looks like he had the same look of piston and cylinder with mine but my piston rings are still intact. (He found out that half of one of the ring was gone) I talked to the previous owner and he could not tell me anything more beside his son said it was not running right onewheeldrive I already ordered the BBK and new carb. I was rush to order those parts so I can have it by this weekend... I should have waited a bit...Uhhhh!!!! The gasket did fall off and I kept it with the exhaust parts so it was not in the pictures. I put it back in the port now but I will have to clean it up a bit. I took off the CVT plastic case today but could not pull the pulley off to see inside but I think they look fine, just lots of black dust. Anything in particular that I should inspect while I have the case off?
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 11, 2015 22:19:32 GMT -5
The carbon build up at the top of the cylinder is normal . the rings do not reach up that high , cleaning it is fine but if you are going to hone the cylinder , the honing should take care of it .
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Post by ramblinman on Mar 11, 2015 23:04:28 GMT -5
I talked to the previous owner and he could not tell me anything more beside his son said it was not running right did you order a new carb? if not then spend some time unsealing the stock carb while you're waiting on new parts. without access to the jets and air/fuel ratio screw you will have the same problems as the previous owner.
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Post by gift on Mar 11, 2015 23:08:34 GMT -5
I ordered a new carb but I am trying to unseal the stock carb too. I want to put all stock parts back in and try start it up to see before I put all the new parts in.
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Post by onewheeldrive on Mar 12, 2015 5:19:53 GMT -5
Not to beat a dead horse, but it's more of a push/pull motion with the crank rod---- that's how I should have described it when checking for play. I'm not sure I saw that in the video after re-watching it--it's dark down in the case at times. Push/pull, with a bit of force for extra measure, should do the trick.
For the CVT, unless you can get the variator/clutch off, just check the belt and/or for oil leaks---they usually pool at the bottom of the case over time. The belt is probably fine and they usually are until they wear down to around 15mm or so for the width, but note the brand of belt--- usually the stock belts are rather generic and don't have the greatest reputation. Gates Powerlink seems to be the most popular good quality brand around the scoot forums. Bando gets mentioned a lot, too. I'd also note the size marked on the belt, it's most likely 669-18-30.
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Post by gift on Mar 15, 2015 16:21:51 GMT -5
I just successfully unsealed the stock carb and found that the jets are 81 and 33 which surprised me. Because the scoot ran rich before while the main jet is only 81. I noticed the gap between valves were really big when I took it apart though. Is it possible that because of the valve but not the carburetor that made the scoot run rich.
I stupidly ordered wrong size piston and rings so I gotta wait again for the correct size to come and assemble the parts back together.
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 15, 2015 16:37:53 GMT -5
I just successfully unsealed the stock carb and found that the jets are 81 and 33 which surprised me. Because the scoot ran rich before while the main jet is only 81. I noticed the gap between valves were really big when I took it apart though. Is it possible that because of the valve but not the carburetor that made the scoot run rich. I stupidly ordered wrong size piston and rings so I gotta wait again for the correct size to come and assemble the parts back together. The valves would not make the scoot run rich or lean . when u say u unsealed the carb , did u unseal the carb and get to the air fuel screw ? If I'm not mistaken those jets sound about right for a 50cc. If I'm not mistaken I've heard of them coming with an 80 main , but I would order a few extra , like a 35 pilot and a set of mains 82-86 When it comes to valve gaps , what are they set at ? Remember you must be lined up at tdc "top dead center " to check valve gaps. You were probably told all of this already ,lol sorry
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