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Post by rdhood on Jan 28, 2015 12:49:07 GMT -5
Scoot: a Jonway 150 T-7 (probably sold under several different names... mine was "Pioneer 150-T")
I have never tried an all out "see what it will do", but I have had it close to 60 in the flats, and it did not take long to get there. This seems about average for 150cc scoots.
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Post by scootdude on Jan 31, 2015 4:48:41 GMT -5
I'd like to see someone like Burt Munro run a beefed up scooter out on the salt flats and set a scooter world record. So far scooters seem to be discounted by the mainstream. I think if someone with a love of scooters and speed were to step up to the plate, then scooters might be taken more seriously. As far as I know no one has yet to run a scooter on the salt flats for any kind of a record. Heck, I should go out there and run my 250cc just to be the first to set a recorded time with a scooter!
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Post by JerryScript on Jan 31, 2015 9:52:09 GMT -5
I'd like to see someone like Burt Munro run a beefed up scooter out on the salt flats and set a scooter world record. So far scooters seem to be discounted by the mainstream. I think if someone with a love of scooters and speed were to step up to the plate, then scooters might be taken more seriously. As far as I know no one has yet to run a scooter on the salt flats for any kind of a record. Heck, I should go out there and run my 250cc just to be the first to set a recorded time with a scooter! Here's a blog posting about one such attempt: El Mirage Conditions Uncooperative but Scooter Land Speed Records Established Anyway
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 31, 2015 18:26:33 GMT -5
I'm surprised that speeds weren't higher, even under adverse conditions. Back in 1962, my McCulloch MC 101 powered mini-bike easily topped 100 mph (on 5-inch wheels to boot)... If I recall those stone-age days, my "Big Mac" 2-stroke kart motor was around 9 cubic inches, or close to 150 cc and cranked out around 38 hp @ 21,000 rpm. A trio of those buzz-bombs on a go-kart gave you a REAL "E-Ticket-Ride"... LOL! Absolutely competitive with the FASTEST of today's crotch-rockets, from 0 to 60, 0 to 100 or 0 to over 200!
I'd think a bone-stock Italian scooter of ANY make of 250 cc or better could break WELL over 100 mph when tuned and set up for top speed.
Go for the gold, guys!
Leo in Texas
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Post by Jarlaxle on Feb 1, 2015 16:00:38 GMT -5
I've only gotten up to between 65 and 70 on my 257cc (I'm up to 235lbs at this point), but I don't feel safe at that speed. My suspension feels like it can't manage at that speed, and as I've said on the highway speed thread here I start getting white knuckled from all the buffeting at that speed because I'm sure it's going to knock me down. Serious question: how's your tire pressure? Even a few psi low made my Helix pretty unstable. |
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Post by jerseyboy on Feb 1, 2015 17:03:55 GMT -5
I'm surprised that speeds weren't higher, even under adverse conditions. Back in 1962, my McCulloch MC 101 powered mini-bike easily topped 100 mph (on 5-inch wheels to boot)... If I recall those stone-age days, my "Big Mac" 2-stroke kart motor was around 9 cubic inches, or close to 150 cc and cranked out around 38 hp @ 21,000 rpm. A trio of those buzz-bombs on a go-kart gave you a REAL "E-Ticket-Ride"... LOL! Absolutely competitive with the FASTEST of today's crotch-rockets, from 0 to 60, 0 to 100 or 0 to over 200! I'd think a bone-stock Italian scooter of ANY make of 250 cc or better could break WELL over 100 mph when tuned and set up for top speed.
Go for the gold, guys!Leo in Texas Hi Leo,, We had a McCulloch powered three wheeler back in the early 80s,,it was pull start,,I was too young to know how many CC's it was,,my pop said if I could start it,,i could ride it...needless to say I eventually got it started,,that thing was all out scary to ride man,,it would spin in a complete circle in the grass,,it had two little foot pegs up front to put your feet on,,and a big fiberglass body in the back,some small suspension springs front and back..man I miss those days!! |
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Post by scootdude on Feb 1, 2015 17:12:06 GMT -5
I'd like to see someone like Burt Munro run a beefed up scooter out on the salt flats and set a scooter world record. So far scooters seem to be discounted by the mainstream. I think if someone with a love of scooters and speed were to step up to the plate, then scooters might be taken more seriously. As far as I know no one has yet to run a scooter on the salt flats for any kind of a record. Heck, I should go out there and run my 250cc just to be the first to set a recorded time with a scooter! Here's a blog posting about one such attempt: El Mirage Conditions Uncooperative but Scooter Land Speed Records Established Anyway
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 2, 2015 13:58:49 GMT -5
I'm surprised that speeds weren't higher, even under adverse conditions. Back in 1962, my McCulloch MC 101 powered mini-bike easily topped 100 mph (on 5-inch wheels to boot)... If I recall those stone-age days, my "Big Mac" 2-stroke kart motor was around 9 cubic inches, or close to 150 cc and cranked out around 38 hp @ 21,000 rpm. A trio of those buzz-bombs on a go-kart gave you a REAL "E-Ticket-Ride"... LOL! Absolutely competitive with the FASTEST of today's crotch-rockets, from 0 to 60, 0 to 100 or 0 to over 200! I'd think a bone-stock Italian scooter of ANY make of 250 cc or better could break WELL over 100 mph when tuned and set up for top speed.
Go for the gold, guys!Leo in Texas Hi Leo,, We had a McCulloch powered three wheeler back in the early 80s,,it was pull start,,I was too young to know how many CC's it was,,my pop said if I could start it,,i could ride it...needless to say I eventually got it started,,that thing was all out scary to ride man,,it would spin in a complete circle in the grass,,it had two little foot pegs up front to put your feet on,,and a big fiberglass body in the back,some small suspension springs front and back..man I miss those days!! Jerseyboy,
You are truly "blessed" to have even had a small taste of the 1950/1960's 2-stroke Kart motors... Nothing before or since has come close to the ANIMAL performance they had!
My memories are now pretty dim about things THAT far back, but I still recall the wild performance of the karts of my youth... I raced some, before McCulloch, West Bend and Homelite introduced factory racers. That killed off the dad and son back yard racers. A kid with one kart and maybe a spare engine could not compete with 120 pound Japanese professional drivers piloting exotic factory special karts with unlimited money behind them.
I was a die-hard McCulloch fanatic. We actually paid little attention to the displacement of the engines. I'm guessing that the MC-5 was likely 5 cid, the MC-7 was 7 cid, the MC-10 was 10 cid, (10 cid being approx. 150 cc and 15 cid being about 250 cc) but I honestly don't remember. We dogmatically shunned the metric system, and thought "cc" was saying "yes, yes" in Spanish... LOL! We knew a Hog had 74 cid. We didn't know THAT was around 1,200 cc. A Triumph "650" was to us, a model number. The bike had around 40 cid.
But we DID know a well-massaged "Big Mac" MC-101 set up for methanol and castor-oil would push a kart to around 130 mph, a pair would notch it up to 160 and a trio of 'em would bounce your eyeballs off the back of your skull when you floored it, and keep right on going... 0 to 60 in about 2.5 seconds, 0 to 100 in about 8 seconds, and on that lovely long straightaway at Meadowdale, you could hit about 205 mph if all was running right... All on "shopping cart wheels" with tires marked "not for highway use" and "maximum speed 20 mph"... I remember seeing daylight between the rims, and tube/tires as they "grew" off the rims at over 150... Whew! Every bit as awesome as a new Suzuki Hayabusa... and all with NO gears, at 2-inches off the pavement. Definitely "E-Ticket" and "FULL-GOOSE-BOZO" Yup!
My old mini-bike was powered by one of my spare 101's set up for gasoline, and through a fluke in the sixties Illinois licensing laws (long story) I got it street-licensed. I actually made considerable operating cash racing that little beastie against ANYTHING on two wheels, and ANY car short of a top-fuel rail... It would run an honest 11-second quarter mile, albeit at a sedate 105 mph... The quick elapsed time came from its incredible "off the line" ability...
I well remember those fiberglass body 3-wheelers! They were all the rage before ATV's hit the scene. VERY cool! A good McCulloch kart motor on one WOULD be wild! Those indeed WERE good old days... Biking was mostly fun, with no mufflers, no insurance, no helmets and no hassles. Some of the accepted practices were not safe, but I honestly doubt there were much higher percentages of injuries and fatalities per-rider than today. And we surely had FUN!
For those who still want to taste the forbidden fruit of sixties 2-strokes, Chrysler bought out the tooling for the West Bend kart motors long ago and produced the 580 and 810 "Power Bee" motors for decades for industrial use. They MAY even still make them. They show up on eBay on occasion. These engines were used on railroad-track cutters and depending on how they were set up, nearly equaled the great Mac engines.
Unless you've run one, or two, or three... LOL! you just can't imagine the thrill of a 10-pound magnesium motor you coud hold in one hand, originally intended for a 5-hp chainsaw, pumping out 20 to 40 hp @ INSANE rpms... The ear-splitting shriek, the shove in your back, the sudden blurr of scenery as you pass the 150 mph mark, heading for that magic "double-dime" speed... WOW! It's enough to make this old geezer feel like a young puppy again...
One (or TWO?) of those motors hooked to a Comet CVT tranny would be a HOOT stuffed into a modern 50cc scoot! I can just see in my mind, a cute little 50, now barking that unmistakable 2-cycle "rrrmmmm, pop, pop, pop, rrrmmmmm, pop, pop... then going WOT from a red-light, the rider desperately trying to get his (or her) chin on the front fender... front wheel clawing for the sky, and the rear tire exploding to about 150 mph wheel-speed, while clouding the intersection in burning rubber and castor-oil smoke... Oh, YEAH... SSSWWWEEEEET!
You never, NEVER, EVER get too old for THAT kind of fun!!!
Ride safe, and, if you snag one of those voodoo-filled kart motors, ride fast and loud!
Leo (enjoying reminiscing) in Texas
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Post by jerseyboy on Feb 2, 2015 14:41:45 GMT -5
Yup,,
It was setup like a snowmobile with a CVT,,that sucker ripped really hard!!!!
My dad ended up putting a steel cable on it for the recoil,,the rope kept breaking from the compression..lol..it had to be at least a 250cc.
One bada$$ motor they made!!
I will never forget the sound the motor made when it spooled up,,it was quite demonic to say the least,,but I loved it!!!!
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Post by Jarlaxle on Feb 2, 2015 18:03:09 GMT -5
My uncle remembers a dude near Fort Hood had one of those things...took 2 guys to start it, and he ran it on a mix of methanol, hydrazine, castor oil...and nitromethane. Damn thing would run about a mid-5-second 1/8 mile. (Of course, it usually needed an IFO by the third run.) Another guy had a pair in a homemade dune buggy...it would do a wheelie in sand with paddle tires. Bloody insane!
About the same time, he had a bike...it was BIG, everybody was amazed. It was a Matchless...a whopping 600cc. (Well, that was big then...)
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Post by JerryScript on Feb 2, 2015 20:44:49 GMT -5
My uncle remembers a dude near Fort Hood had one of those things...took 2 guys to start it, and he ran it on a mix of methanol, hydrazine, castor oil...and nitromethane. Damn thing would run about a mid-5-second 1/8 mile. (Of course, it usually needed an IFO by the third run.) Another guy had a pair in a homemade dune buggy...it would do a wheelie in sand with paddle tires. Bloody insane! About the same time, he had a bike...it was BIG, everybody was amazed. It was a Matchless...a whopping 600cc. (Well, that was big then...) I grew up in Killeen right next to Ft Hood. I remember some pretty cool customs on the dirt tracks there, and the local Hog chapter had so much chrome lined up on the streets when they rode through you could shave and do your hair standing on the sidewalk! Good memories, thanks for bringing them up! |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 3, 2015 3:07:00 GMT -5
My uncle remembers a dude near Fort Hood had one of those things...took 2 guys to start it, and he ran it on a mix of methanol, hydrazine, castor oil...and nitromethane. Damn thing would run about a mid-5-second 1/8 mile. (Of course, it usually needed an IFO by the third run.) Another guy had a pair in a homemade dune buggy...it would do a wheelie in sand with paddle tires. Bloody insane! About the same time, he had a bike...it was BIG, everybody was amazed. It was a Matchless...a whopping 600cc. (Well, that was big then...) Woo-HOO! A matchless 600 cc single IS a big bike... A real "stump-puller"!
I do understand the 2 guys needed to rope-start a hot kart motor... when racing, we usually had direct-drive and had a big guy lift the rear wheels off the ground, then run and drop the kart... Duh... Well, it DID work!
Rich kids had jack-stands and electric starters...
My mini-bike motor had a V-belt pulley for electric starting, with a notch for a rope (actually two notches to balance it). Leaving home, I'd start it with a 4 hp Briggs "pony motor" by stretching a belt between it and the McCulloch. THAT worked GREAT. On the road though, I had to rely on the venerable rope with wooden handle. I was 6' 2' and 375 pounds back then, and in "fightin' trim" and it still took ALL I had to spin that monster over the 20 or 30 pulls needed (no choke on the diaphragm racing carb) to get it barkin' again. What a glutton for punishment I was!
Actually USING that engine on the street: a real PIA... Ridin' a 40 pound mini-bike that would beat ANY vehicle on the road in the 1/4 mile, and could be carried under your arm: PRICELESS!!!
Here is a vintage ad for the mini-bike I had. This one looks like has a West Bend 580 motor. Note the ad recommends for "uses" many that require riding on the street... Wanna try to license one of these today?... LOL!
Here's the sixties' Fox Campus Bike... A VERY sweet mini-bike designed for street-licensed transportation. The small wheel-size killed it. I got my mini with 5" wheels licensed under a fluke in the Illinois licensing code, but the law got changed shortly after I got my license. I was allowed to keep renewing MY license under a "grandfather" provision! This one is powered by the popular Tecumseh 3.5 hp 4-stroke.
These were REALLY nice... True mini-bikes, but true scooters too. Actual suspension front and rear, generator/battery lights, absolutely made to be tiny, street-licensed scooters you could take with you in the trunk, or in a station wagon. A great idea, but conceived without researching into its ability to be licensed, and street-ridden in most states.
We really had some marvelous things a half-century ago!
Later on, I acquired a RARE McCulloch MC-101 prototype engine made for the Fox-Kart "Campus Bike". The Fox was a true SCOOTER in miniature. Looked a lot like a Cushman Eagle. Anyway, the engine never did get adopted to the Fox, and the handful of the engines made went to kart shops.
They were NEAT! painted red, white and blue, they were true 101's but in place of the tapered crank, had a STRAIGHT, keyed crankshaft stub which would accept any clutch, pulley or sprocket. Neat! Then, they had the big pumper carb equipped with a choke, AND the cylinder had a compression-release you pushed in to start it with the chainsaw-style recoil-starter. When the engine fired, the release would blow out again. All that made the all-out racing 101 into a "more or less" civilized recoil-start marvel! Trouble was, it WAS intended for a sport scooter, and racers rejected the bells and whistles. It had no place on the track, but was FABULOUS on the street... Every bit as powerful as the racing motors. I assume it never made it into the Fox production line because it was EXPENSIVE and mom and dad didn't want junior riding a mini-bike faster than a Triumph Bonneville... LOL!
We bought our racing supplies at a Chicago kart shop, and it had six of these commercial 101's, and they'd GIVE you a free one with the purchase of 3 racing motors. I got one! I ran it briefly on another mini-bike and it was just as hot as the original, but could be started and managed like a chainsaw engine.
I got it around 1962 I believe, used it gently and packed it away until 3 years ago. Times got tough, and I listed it on eBay and got a VERY welcome $1,275 for it! I don't think McCulloch made more than a hundred of them, and mine may well have been the only one of its kind left in running shape in the entire country.
Yeah, memories I have in abundance... You will too when you near 70... LOL! Lots of fun reminiscing!
If any of you fellow scooter jockeys ever get a chance to fool with a vintage kart motor, do NOT miss the chance! McCullochs were the king of the hill, but great ones also came from West Bend, Power Products, Homelite and even Clinton. Many don't even know Clinton made a modest racing motor... The old A-400 bushing motor, and A-490 roller-bearing version were about all you ever saw. They were just tuned versions of the "Panther" 2 1/2 hp mower engines. But, there WAS the E-65, probably derived from their chainsaw engines... Definitely NOT in the ballpark with the major players, but pumped out probably 15 hp @ 15,000 rpm. Not really competitive on the track, BUT not a slug in the supermarket parking lot either!
American 2-cycle technology was just getting going when legislation, and hot OHC 4-strokes killed it off. Had things been different, we'd now be seeing 2,000 cc 3-cylinder 2-strokes putting out 700 hp @ 25,000 rpm on street rides weighing under 500 pounds... Talk about a 200 mph honking moose-call on steroids! Whew!
Ride safe, dream big...
Leo in Texas
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Post by jerseyboy on Feb 3, 2015 9:29:32 GMT -5
I started out at 7 yrs old on a rupp pull start mini bike,,it had a 3.5 hp and the chain would fall off every 1/2 mile,,I still had a blast on that thing...if I was a little wiser then I would have figured out why the chain kept falling off,,I believe it was an alignment issue cause it was tight as all get up.
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Post by jerseyboy on Feb 4, 2015 8:17:42 GMT -5
Check out this kart...its got 150hp easy.....I about split my pants LMAO!!
Hes burnin rubber halfway down the track and still pulls off in the 7's....lol hahaha!!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 4, 2015 9:58:46 GMT -5
Jerseyboy,
WOW! A much more modern kart than in my day, but that same wild performance! From the sound, I'm not sure if that kart in the video is a 2-stroke or a high-revving 4-stroke. Whatever it is, it MOVES!
Great post!
Leo in Texas
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