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by: scooter - Aug 12, 2014 21:10:01 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 12, 2014 21:10:01 GMT -5
Wow, Scoot .... 8gr sounds awfully light from what I've been reading. Did you experiment with sliders in the 10 or 11 gr range to see if they gave better results? I haven't tried sliders yet. I wanted to figure out what weights would work before paying more for sliders. I went through several trials. My original variator wasn't pushing the belt all the way out toward the edge of the pulley, so with 13's I had okay acceleration. My WOTACC (wot acceleration) RPM was around 6000 I think. It gets confusing trying so many variations all at once. I think I was shooting for 7500, right or wrong, because that was listed as max horsepower for the gy6. I had read that 1g would get me about 500 RPM so I got the 10g's. I had great acceleration but high RPMs at cruising speeds, so I tried 13's and 10's, then 12's, 12's and 10's, and 12's and 13's. I wasn't very happy with the trade offs between high and low speeds. (Insert long bring story about new cheap 105mm variator, mulched belt, and cracked variator sleeve here, some other time.) I also got a new clutch as mine was missing a chunk of metal and vibrated badly. After some more fiddling around, I sent off for a 115mm performance ramp sheave. That threw everything out of whack. My acceleration was poor, even with the 10g rollers on it, so I sent off for 8's. I of course tried 8's and 10's, then just 8's. The variator seems to be the dominant variable in the situation. The clutch may be a little lighter than the old one, for all I know, but like I said, it gets confusing, having changed the setups over and over again to see what would happen. Right now I'm at 8g's with the new clutch and performance variator and it's nice. I may try even smaller weights if I see them. I really like the 10 - 50 mph performance and the revs are nice and low. I wanted 6500 WOTRPM, but this is not too bad. (At first I was shooting for max HP RPM. Now I'm shooting for max Torque RPM. Still don't know which one is better.) I was going to put a thin shim in the variator to make it slightly wider, but I'm not sure what the measurements of the sleeve diameter are, I don't have calipers to measure them with handy, they seem hard to find as no one wants to use them, and besides that, I don't want to lose any top end. I was thinking of rejetting next, to see if i gain any power, but I don't know. I am trying to determine if my mix is lean or rich or whatever. My plug looks nice, as far as I can judge. I believe the air filter is relatively new, but I'll be sure to get another one soon. Like a lot of people, I didn't carefully test and document performance for every little variation I made. Still, it's easy to see that the new variator had a profound effect on the system. Not too sure about the clutch. It was a must-have, so I put it on as soon as I got it, without concern for my testing. I may put the old one back on with the new variator and see what happens, just for a test run, and see if that has anything to do with the high start up gearing I'm currently getting. I'd take the time to test and document it all over again properly but that *&^&* variator cover is a pain in the rear to take on and off, over and over again, and as I understand it, it's a structural component of the tranny so I can't just leave it off. Now it is cracked around one of the bolt holes so I sent off for a new one. I didn't tighten it that hard so I don't know what's up with that. Now my mirror is slopping around. This thing breaks faster than I can fix it. |
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by: scooter - Aug 12, 2014 21:21:39 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 12, 2014 21:21:39 GMT -5
Well all I have to say is something is not right if he has 8gram weights and only getting in the 6000 rpm range that is for sure. With 10gram weights that motor should be running high in the 7000 rpms range. So with lighter weights below 10grams that motor should be screaming. Maybe he doesn't have a tach on it and is just guessing what the rpms are. I was using a cheap induction tach I got on ebay. It seemed to work okay and gave consistent readings. Two weeks ago it froze up, after someone tore my dash apart trying to steal the scooter. I desoldered the battery and put it back on, and it worked great for about a day. I have a new one on the way. Yes, it's definitely low RPM compared to my other variator. See my last post to rcq92130 for details. |
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by: alleyoop - Aug 12, 2014 21:55:31 GMT -5
Post by alleyoop on Aug 12, 2014 21:55:31 GMT -5
You are all mixed up bud, I don't care what variator you put on:
Lighter Weights in ANY VARIATOR will cause HIGHER RPMS BEFORE any speed is gotten. It takes MORE RPMS(CRANK TURNING FASTER ) to create more centrifugal force to move the LIGHTER WEIGHTS out to push the Variator out to squeeze the belt for it to climb up the face of the pulleys. The contra spring in the pulley on the clutch Assembly on the other hand is putting pressure on the pulley squeezing the belt trying to keep it up. That also comes into play with the required rpms and weights in the variator forcing the pulley to open and have the belt drop down for more speed as the belt is climbing in the Variator.
So you putting in 8gram weights that motor has to be screaming with really high rpms to move the scoot.
Get a Video if just SOUND only of you riding it at WOT, love to hear the motors rpms.
Alleyoop
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by: scooter - Aug 12, 2014 22:33:27 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 12, 2014 22:33:27 GMT -5
I don't think it is screaming. I have had it up to 8500+ rpm, according to the tach, so I know what it sounds like when it's screaming.
If the new clutch has a loose contra spring, it would allow the variator to open easier. That is correct, is it not?
And if the inner ramp profile on the variator is "flat", then it would need less pressure, via RPMs, to push the pulleys open. Right?
Also, I suppose they could have been mislabeled. I didn't weigh them. (Edit, I have weighed them. They are 8 grams)
I'll send a video soon.
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by: scooter - Aug 17, 2014 21:01:59 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 17, 2014 21:01:59 GMT -5
So you putting in 8gram weights that motor has to be screaming with really high rpms to move the scoot. Get a Video if just SOUND only of you riding it at WOT, love to hear the motors rpms. Alleyoop I made a phone video but all you can hear is air blast, even with it held down to the open engine bay. The new tach shows, in the video, about 5600RPM as it climbs and about 6000 rpm @ about 52 mph. That's at WOT. The last scene showed 6500 at about 59mph. (I was moving the camera back and forth between the tach and the speedo.) With the old clutch and variator, with 13g weights, I was redlining it all the time, easily hitting 8000 rpm and more. Now I struggle to hit 7500 at top speed. I am assuming it's the new variator bringing the belt a little higher than the old one. That would explain the lower RPMs at top speeds. As for acceleration at WOT, I'd say the new clutch may be letting the belt go higher faster, keeping me in a higher gear, and again the variator making the belt go higher. The bike really has a rough push up to 10mph, but once it gets going the acceleration is nice. Before that, the best acceleration I had was, (with the old clutch and variator), with the 10g weights, which were the lightest I had at the time. It was very strong off the line, but ran annoyingly high rpms. This new clutch and variator have definitely changed the variables in the drive. I am considering getting some tighter clutch pad springs to get the rpms up before it engages the wheel. Otherwise I like the setup. still i would like it even better if my WOTRPM was around 6500. That's about max torque, right? Isn't that the number I'm looking for, for max acceleration? I suppose I could put in a stiffer contra spring, but it's pretty good now and frankly I don't want to keep throwing time and money into it just for a tiny bit better performance. I could be putting that money toward a new scooter. I do enjoy working on it though. I have had the body stripped down to the frame twice already just to poke around on it. BTW, I also got one of those orange "racing" CDIs and coil. Is that really doing anything? It doesn't seem to be. |
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by: geh3333 - Aug 17, 2014 21:30:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geh3333 on Aug 17, 2014 21:30:19 GMT -5
Your looking to hit 7500 rpms for the max top end power .
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by: scooter - Aug 17, 2014 21:32:55 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 17, 2014 21:32:55 GMT -5
Your looking to hit 7500 rpms for the max top end power . Thanks! I have been wavering between max HP (7500) and max torque (6500) rpm without a definitive answer. (Okay now I see it says top end power, but we need max torque RPM on acceleration, is that correct?)
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by: geh3333 - Aug 17, 2014 21:43:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geh3333 on Aug 17, 2014 21:43:46 GMT -5
Yes you could be spot on with your assumptions of the belt being raised higher on the variator and needing a heavier main spring . What gram weights are u running right now with those results ?
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by: geh3333 - Aug 17, 2014 21:48:03 GMT -5
via mobile
scooter likes this
Post by geh3333 on Aug 17, 2014 21:48:03 GMT -5
Your looking to hit 7500 rpms for the max top end power . Thanks! I have been wavering between max HP (7500) and max torque (6500) rpm without a definitive answer. If you can't hit 7500 rpms on a straight run your not running the engine at it's full potential . I just had to go with 9.5 gram rollers " mixture of 10's and 9's" . |
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by: rcq92130 - Aug 17, 2014 22:07:04 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Aug 17, 2014 22:07:04 GMT -5
GEH - interesting comments.
I'm still a bit let down by my new 150, as the top indicated speed I can achieve is about 55. Accel is OK - most times outrun cars at the stop light (because, obviously, they are not racing). Anyway - satisfied with the scoot part of the scooter; just not the top end.
Running a dr pulley with 11gr sliders. No RPM limit CDI. Uni filter; bored out exhaust. 115 main jet in a stock carb.
NEVER see RPMs above 7200, and at top end most of the time about 6900.
Now I'm wondering if i need to go even lighter on the sliders ..........
Or maybe the air/fuel is just not yet right ..........
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by: JerryScript - Aug 17, 2014 23:51:12 GMT -5
Post by JerryScript on Aug 17, 2014 23:51:12 GMT -5
A plug chop will let you know if your air fuel mix is good. Looking for a nice brown coffee color, definitely don't want bright white porcelain! If you already have a brown stained plug, you'll need to use a new one for the plug chop.
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by: rcq92130 - Aug 18, 2014 1:24:39 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Aug 18, 2014 1:24:39 GMT -5
Plug chop? I remember reading someone said about running WOT for 1/2 mile or so, then coasting to a stop and looking at the spark plug on the side of the road. Is that a 'plug chop"?
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by: geh3333 - Aug 18, 2014 1:41:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geh3333 on Aug 18, 2014 1:41:14 GMT -5
I'd try a half gram lighter on the weights . Not sure if you saw my video " 73 mph " yes it was a slight decline but I picked up 5 mph by dropping from ten to 9.5 gram weights . With the ten gram weights I was hitting under around 7200 rpms and 68mph on that decline and with the 9.5 grams I was hitting near 8000 rpms . I like to be able to hit near 7500 on a straight run but not be able to Exceed 8000 even on small declines . It's a fine tuning process . Also you should be able pull the plug and be able to tell if you are to rich or not .
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by: scooter - Aug 18, 2014 1:58:07 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 18, 2014 1:58:07 GMT -5
Yes you could be spot on with your assumptions of the belt being raised higher on the variator and needing a heavier main spring . What gram weights are u running right now with those results ? I am running 8g weights right now. |
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by: geh3333 - Aug 18, 2014 2:23:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geh3333 on Aug 18, 2014 2:23:44 GMT -5
I hate to say this but I think you should have gone with a Koso variator . I think alley earlier said the dr pulley wasn't the best for top end. You may have just varified that . 8 grams is very light for a 150cc cvt . Can you see how high your belt is climbing on the variator ?
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
