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by: geh3333 - Aug 18, 2014 2:25:51 GMT -5
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 18, 2014 2:25:51 GMT -5
Yes you could be spot on with your assumptions of the belt being raised higher on the variator and needing a heavier main spring . What gram weights are u running right now with those results ? I am running 8g weights right now. Sorry scoot you didn't order the dr pulley variator I got mixed up who I was talkin to . |
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by: geh3333 - Aug 18, 2014 2:27:44 GMT -5
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 18, 2014 2:27:44 GMT -5
Yes you could be spot on with your assumptions of the belt being raised higher on the variator and needing a heavier main spring . What gram weights are u running right now with those results ? I am running 8g weights right now. What type of variator are u running scoot ? I would go with a heavier main spring and maybe heavier clutch springs also . That may give you the takeoff your looking for . |
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by: scooter - Aug 18, 2014 4:17:40 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 18, 2014 4:17:40 GMT -5
I am running 8g weights right now. Sorry scoot you didn't order the dr pulley variator I got mixed up who I was talkin to . That's okay. Not to knock the site at all, but the forum here makes it hard to know who is talking to whom unless we quote each other, and also hard to find out if someone has replied to us. I don't know how much control the admins have over that though. |
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by: scooter - Aug 18, 2014 4:32:01 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 18, 2014 4:32:01 GMT -5
I am running 8g weights right now. What type of variator are u running scoot ? I would go with a heavier main spring and maybe heavier clutch springs also . That may give you the takeoff your looking for . It is listed on ebay as: Sport Performance Racing Variator for 125 150 Scooter KOSO 115mm  The clutch came from the same place as the other variator I tried that shredded my belt, also from them, on the first run. I used the boss (is that what that big spacer/bushing thing is called?) with the new variator and it cracked or was already cracked and I didn't know it. I was going to retest the el cheapo variator, but my original boss would not fit in it. I am beginning to think that the company, that I got that messed up variator, belt, and this clutch from, sell rejects. It probably has a weak contra spring in it. It would be nice if we could make small adjustments to the contra pully setup. To be clear, there was my original variator 105mm, with 13g weights and the belt running low, the el cheapo one 105mm that trashed my el cheapo belt running high on the pulley, and now the variator 115mm above with 8g weights. I don't think I needed a bigger variator, just a new one. A good new one. |
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by: geh3333 - Aug 18, 2014 21:18:44 GMT -5
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 18, 2014 21:18:44 GMT -5
I have the same variator " Koso " however I noticed the belt dosent go all the way down on it , it starts about 3/4 inch up in the variator . This is the second one I've bought this yr " due to clutch issue destroying the variator " and they both were the same . The first Koso I bought a coue yrs ago was perfect the belt traveled all the way down an nearly all the way up . It's like the boss should be a mm or two longer so the variator would be open more . Or the back of the variator where the boss inserts into is to long . I'm gonna measure the old Koso with the other two .
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by: geh3333 - Aug 18, 2014 21:51:10 GMT -5
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scooter likes this
Post by geh3333 on Aug 18, 2014 21:51:10 GMT -5
Checkout my Koso threads , I think u have one of these . That's why your takeoff is alittle weak . Luckily I have a 2000 main and some extra hp to compensate .
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Post by scooter on Aug 19, 2014 1:45:29 GMT -5
I have the same variator " Koso " however I noticed the belt dosent go all the way down on it , it starts about 3/4 inch up in the variator . This is the second one I've bought this yr " due to clutch issue destroying the variator " and they both were the same . The first Koso I bought a coue yrs ago was perfect the belt traveled all the way down an nearly all the way up . It's like the boss should be a mm or two longer so the variator would be open more . Or the back of the variator where the boss inserts into is to long . I'm gonna measure the old Koso with the other two . Exactly. The belt is taught when not moving. On my old variator, the tension was all the way off when the bike was turned off. I have been looking for the right spacers for the variator but have not found them yet. They will look like this:  I could put one in to open up the pulleys a little. I need to get some calipers so I can measure my stuff and order spacers that fit. I believe the spacer/s would go between the boss and the variator ramp pulley. I would then get a better take off and higher RPMs at top speed. Of course i would still need lighter weights and/or a stiffer contra to get the accelerating RPMs up. |
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by: geh3333 - Aug 19, 2014 1:49:23 GMT -5
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 19, 2014 1:49:23 GMT -5
I have the same variator " Koso " however I noticed the belt dosent go all the way down on it , it starts about 3/4 inch up in the variator . This is the second one I've bought this yr " due to clutch issue destroying the variator " and they both were the same . The first Koso I bought a coue yrs ago was perfect the belt traveled all the way down an nearly all the way up . It's like the boss should be a mm or two longer so the variator would be open more . Or the back of the variator where the boss inserts into is to long . I'm gonna measure the old Koso with the other two . Exactly. The belt is taught when not moving. On my old variator, the tension was all the way off when the bike was turned off. I have been looking for the right spacers for the variator but have not found them yet. They will look like this: I could put one in to open up the pulleys a little. I need to get some calipers so I can measure my stuff and order spacers that fit. I believe the spacer/s would go between the boss and the variator ramp pulley. I would then get a better take off and higher RPMs at top speed. Of course i would still need lighter weights and/or a stiffer contra to get the accelerating RPMs up. Did u check out my new thread about the Koso variator ? I would be worried about adding the spacer because it will move the drive face a little off the splines, even 1mm may be enough to cause problems . Check out the measuents and the pics in the thread . |
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by: scooter - Aug 19, 2014 2:08:42 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 19, 2014 2:08:42 GMT -5
Exactly. The belt is taught when not moving. On my old variator, the tension was all the way off when the bike was turned off. I have been looking for the right spacers for the variator but have not found them yet. They will look like this: I could put one in to open up the pulleys a little. I need to get some calipers so I can measure my stuff and order spacers that fit. I believe the spacer/s would go between the boss and the variator ramp pulley. I would then get a better take off and higher RPMs at top speed. Of course i would still need lighter weights and/or a stiffer contra to get the accelerating RPMs up. Did u check out my new thread about the Koso variator ? I would be worried about adding the spacer because it will move the drive face a little off the splines, even 1mm may be enough to cause problems . Check out the measuents and the pics in the thread . I am looking at it now. I just ordered a 6" digital caliper on ebay for around $15. lol so cheap. |
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by: geh3333 - Aug 19, 2014 2:24:27 GMT -5
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 19, 2014 2:24:27 GMT -5
Hopefully they actually work . Lol
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by: scooter - Aug 23, 2014 14:00:34 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 23, 2014 14:00:34 GMT -5
The new tach shows, in the video, about 5600RPM as it climbs and about 6000 rpm @ about 52 mph. That's at WOT. The last scene showed 6500 at about 59mph. (I was moving the camera back and forth between the tach and the speedo.) (Update to self. Using the old variator steel plate, on the new variator, with the same 8g weights, increased the WOTRPM to 6,000-6,100. Have not yet tried switching back to the old ramp sheave and/or drive face. Thinking more and more that the clutch spring is weak.) (8-23-14 Next update to self. Put the old clutch spring in new clutch. Old spring is slightly longer than the newer one. Could not really tell if it improved performance however I did notice the WOTRPMs started climbing a good deal earlier than with the new clutch's original spring. Was like 6,000... 6,000... 6,100... 6,100. Now it's like 6,000...6,100... 6200... 6300. I assume that means that means the spring is allowing the motor to gain more RPM before opening more. Seems less "quivery" on the start but I hate to make a snap judgement. Would be nice to have a bunch of sensors to get real data.) (8-24-14 8:44am. Tried new clutch, old spring, old variator and plate, and 8g weights. 6500-7000 WOTRPMs accelerating, 7,400 RPM@ 55mph, and 8,100 RPM@ 60 mph. Again, RPMs rose quickly while accelerating, even more than before. Very quickly. Very little bogging at startup, very good acceleration. Now like 6,500... 6,700... 7,000... High RPMs at top end. This set up seems to take full advantage of engine power, keeping engine in torque and HP power bands up through 55mph. The old variator does not push the belt as high as the new one by approximately 1/8" This seems to be the trade off. I can have good starting with high rpms at top end or bogging at start and nice low rpms at top end. Pretty good acceleration with either at 8g roller weight. Seems like, ideally, the variator could be a slightly different angle, starting more open at the bottom and more closed at the top, maybe, say, 27-28 degrees instead of 30, keeping the distance apart at the top the same and making the distance apart at the base of the pulley a little wider.) |
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by: rcq92130 - Aug 23, 2014 14:39:10 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Aug 23, 2014 14:39:10 GMT -5
No doubt i just do not understand, but I don't see why "weak clutch spring" would in any way affect rpms at WOT. Do not the springs simply get the clutch to engage, and weak springs would simply increase the rpms at which it engaged?? Isn't it correct that once the engine is turning fast enough for the clutch to engage it no longer has any effect on rpms? Either it's engaged (at 3,000rpm) or not, but once engaged it no longer is a variable.
Wrong?
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by: scooter - Aug 23, 2014 18:21:03 GMT -5
Post by scooter on Aug 23, 2014 18:21:03 GMT -5
No doubt i just do not understand, but I don't see why "weak clutch spring" would in any way affect rpms at WOT. I'm referring to the main contra spring that counters the force of the variator weights. Too light and the weights can close the variator pulley too soon, putting me into higher gearing. I already dropped the weights from 13 to 8 and I'm still getting a shaky start plus WOTRPMs are lower than I want them to be. My options are to get tighter pad springs so I engage at higher rpm and hope the engine stops bogging down at startup, get a tighter contra spring to increase WOTRPMs (I'm going to put my old spring in and see what happens) and/or use even lighter weights if they are available in this size to increase WOTRPMs, and I could also add a spacer to the variator to lower startup gearing but that may cost me top end speed. I like the system the way it is now, except for the first few few seconds off the line, and I want to tune it to give me maximum acceleration while keeping the RPMs low at 55mph cruising speed. Assuming my old contra spring is tighter, I'll very likely have to increase the weights again. Frankly, I wonder if should quit while I'm ahead. I may just be beating a dead horse at this point. haha |
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by: rcq92130 - Aug 23, 2014 18:41:41 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Aug 23, 2014 18:41:41 GMT -5
So it'e not only the variator that determines the ratio of front to back pulley, the springs in the clutch assembly ALSO somehow affect the pulley ratio?
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by: JerryScript - Aug 23, 2014 20:42:11 GMT -5
Post by JerryScript on Aug 23, 2014 20:42:11 GMT -5
So it'e not only the variator that determines the ratio of front to back pulley, the springs in the clutch assembly ALSO somehow affect the pulley ratio? Yes, it's a balancing act between the two. The variator's weights and the contra spring act against each other. So if you have a harder contra spring, you usually need to adjust your variator weights to get the desired results. The clutch springs themselves do affect the ratio, but in a different way, they determine at what RPM of the clutch the pads will swing out and engage. In most cases, stock clutch springs are fine, the contra spring and variator weights are used to fine tune the acceleration curve. |
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