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Post by Kwagga on Jul 23, 2014 9:37:25 GMT -5
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Post by shalomdawg on Jul 23, 2014 19:38:28 GMT -5
howdy , better to feel sore than grate(d). greetings and
lotsa miles and smiles to ya ken
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Post by Paladin on Jul 23, 2014 22:53:51 GMT -5
You can't reach old age by another man's road. My habits protect my life but they would assassinate you. -- Mark Twain, 70th birthday speech, 1905
People tell me should wear "gear" and have the scars to show why. I don't, and have no scars. If you don't mind, I'll continue to ride the way I ride, that has been protecting me. Respect your elders. I don't respect many.
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 25, 2014 4:36:49 GMT -5
That is great... for you.
I assume you ride being aware of your surroundings and ride properly. Unfortunately most riders don't.
We wear ATGATT due to our occasional mistakes, as well as others we share the road with making mistakes. From another 'more mature' member. Sent from my Lumia 1320
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Post by Paladin on Jul 25, 2014 14:54:42 GMT -5
Pain is a fabulous teacher. I learned about 'road rash' before I was six. IMHO, ATGATT teaches you that you can go faster and not worry about 'occasional mistakes.' I prefer being paranoid about any mistakes. It is better to avoid the collision than to hope you will survive it.
But I ride for transportation, not for fun. I ride a bike because (1) I hate being in a cage and (2) I am safer than in a cage.
That picture of the grater is the same as the ones re: safety glasses and the tool protecting the eye. Which is better, have the glasses, or to not pull a tool to your face? You can be paranoid about watching around you, but it is not as much fun.
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Sophomore Rider
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 25, 2014 16:27:29 GMT -5
I agree with you to a degree, but your logic is, why use any safety equipment, because you believe you won't make a mistake. People all over the world have accidents daily because they either mess up themselves, someone else does, or mechanical failure. The last two are not things that we can control, and therefore we should prepare to the best of our ability for that day. We are not protected as we would be in a cage, nor is skin and flesh abrasion resistant. We have to prepare for our and other peoples errors. If you are confident that you won't have an accident due to you own ability, you certainly cannot speak for the driver that is either drunk, inexperienced, unlicensed, reckless, etc. The warning is for everyone, and if you feel confident that you don't need it, just think of the person that does need the warning that you might convince of the contrary. The rider that rides without ATGATT has obviously not seen the results of serious accidents.
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Post by ramblinman on Jul 25, 2014 17:14:10 GMT -5
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Post by DaveC on Jul 25, 2014 19:11:11 GMT -5
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Post by DaveC on Jul 25, 2014 19:17:25 GMT -5
then u get one of these
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Post by rockynv on Jul 26, 2014 0:02:09 GMT -5
I have worked in a variety of industries where there were folks who proclaimed that due to their superior abilities and processes they were above wearing the required safety gear. Plenty of them are missing fingers, have arterial grafts, prosthetic limbs, are missing eyes, missing teeth, have metal plates in their skulls or are dead now from accidents that the gear would most likely had saved them from. Their self declared superior personal protocols and abilities did not render them immune to accidents.
There will always be the potential of coming around a corner and find out that there was some unseen slippery substance on the road such as that puddle not being rain water but soapy water from a car wash, vegetable oil, diesel fuel, etc. The dog, dear, wild pig running across the road. Person suddenly pulling out of a drive way. Bird strike or stray piece of gravel, sand or a pebble hitting your face and temporarily blinding you.
It is truly impossible to say that the way I ride eliminates the need to wear safety gear. One may have by the luck of the draw avoided or dodged that bullet for some time however chances are that most regardless of how well disciplined a rider they are will find themselves going down and needing the proper safety gear to survive. Once you are disabled or dead its too late to change things.
It is really sad to see some pay heed to this naysayer talk and go down through no fault of their own coming to the realization that they should not have listened to the naysayers, that if that would have worn their gear they'd be ok, they could have worn their gear and they should have worn safety gear there was nothing really preventing them from doing so.
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 26, 2014 8:46:58 GMT -5
I am glad to see that others agree with my post. I noticed that this is not the first time members have tried to convince others to wear ATGATT. Highly trained riders get taken out. There is a chap on another forum in South Africa that has been down for a few months because someone pulled out in front of him. He is learning to walk again after a 15mph accident where he crushed his pelvis, among other things. He had a novelty helmet on and looks like he took a massive gang beating. Bonneville written off.
Sent from my Lumia 1320 with Tapatalk
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Post by Paladin on Jul 26, 2014 13:08:20 GMT -5
I agree with you to a degree, but your logic is, why use any safety equipment, because you believe you won't make a mistake... If you are confident that you won't have an accident due to you own ability... The rider that rides without ATGATT has obviously not seen the results of serious accidents. That is NOT my logic. I do NOT believe I never make mistakes. I do believe I am human, and one of the things humans do is feel "safe" when they have "safety equipment." Unless you are un-human you cannot stop feeling safer when you have protection.
"Gear" is for having more fun going faster. Gear is good on the track. On the streets, "gear" is associated with more "accidents" and more injuries and more deaths. I do NOT want to hope to survive accident -- I want to avoid them. I do not want "gear" so to be "safe" -- I want to be paranoid scared of accidents.
I started on pedal bicycles in 1949. By 1955 I was riding on the streets. I learned WHY to not fall. In 1964 I got my first motorcycle. I do not wear "gear" on the streets. I have never had an accident on the streets. I did ride dirt, and wore denim and helmet and gloves -- for fun. I dropped the bike at least once a week, protected, no problem, falling is part of the fun. I saw a mine with bats, went back with photograph equipment. With the equipment I was not allowed to drop it, to not have fun. I had to ride safely. I know myself. I know that protection allows you to have more fun. But I do not ride the streets for fun.
I DO see the results of serious accidents:
ATGATT -- he died.
I KNOW I have never had a crash on the streets. I know the statistics. I know that those pushing ATGATT have crashes, injuries, deaths.
I am afraid of ATGATT. I do not want to be injured or dead.
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Post by spandi on Jul 26, 2014 13:52:13 GMT -5
Safety gear is worn by level headed people who realize than there are inherent risks involved with riding and take steps to reasonably MINIMIZE it. It is not a "Get Out Of Jail Free" pass to take unnecessary chances and these riders know it. If riding with no gear promoted better driving then every flip-flop wearing squid would be doing so with the reflexes, ability, and professionalism of an Indy race car driver. (who are of course famous for their refusal to use safety equipment of any kind as it so interferes with their "Driving Awareness")
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Post by tarkus on Jul 26, 2014 14:18:40 GMT -5
I agree with you to a degree, but your logic is, why use any safety equipment, because you believe you won't make a mistake... If you are confident that you won't have an accident due to you own ability... The rider that rides without ATGATT has obviously not seen the results of serious accidents. That is NOT my logic. I do NOT believe I never make mistakes. I do believe I am human, and one of the things humans do is feel "safe" when they have "safety equipment." Unless you are un-human you cannot stop feeling safer when you have protection.
"Gear" is for having more fun going faster. Gear is good on the track. On the streets, "gear" is associated with more "accidents" and more injuries and more deaths. I do NOT want to hope to survive accident -- I want to avoid them. I do not want "gear" so to be "safe" -- I want to be paranoid scared of accidents.
I started on pedal bicycles in 1949. By 1955 I was riding on the streets. I learned WHY to not fall. In 1964 I got my first motorcycle. I do not wear "gear" on the streets. I have never had an accident on the streets. I did ride dirt, and wore denim and helmet and gloves -- for fun. I dropped the bike at least once a week, protected, no problem, falling is part of the fun. I saw a mine with bats, went back with photograph equipment. With the equipment I was not allowed to drop it, to not have fun. I had to ride safely. I know myself. I know that protection allows you to have more fun. But I do not ride the streets for fun.
I DO see the results of serious accidents:
ATGATT -- he died.
I KNOW I have never had a crash on the streets. I know the statistics. I know that those pushing ATGATT have crashes, injuries, deaths.
I am afraid of ATGATT. I do not want to be injured or dead.
I've logged on just to get banned so here we go. You are an idiot, period. To suggest, with a photo no less ,that the cause of accidents and deaths are ATGATT tells me you have taken a few too many blows to the head. Your day may come, or it may not but if you do dodge the bullet it's because you were just lucky not skilled. Your thought process is beyond distorted. What an . So now go have me banned I care not.
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Post by spandi on Jul 26, 2014 15:09:12 GMT -5
Well Tarkus, what I have found is that wearing all that safety gear continually REMINDS me that I'm in a high-risk situation and INCREASES my awareness of potential danger, rather than the other way around.
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