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Post by spandi on Jul 26, 2014 15:09:37 GMT -5
Sorry, accidentally posted twice.
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Post by Paladin on Jul 26, 2014 19:42:29 GMT -5
... You are an idiot, period.... I am not one who has had "accidents." Again I quote: You can't reach old age by another man's road. My habits protect my life but they would assassinate you. -- Mark Twain, 70th birthday speech, 1905 If you don't mind, I'll continue to ride the way I ride, that has been protecting me for decades. |
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Post by shalomdawg on Jul 26, 2014 19:52:51 GMT -5
howdy, i hope we're having a discussion and not an argument. i think, perhaps ignorantly that i'm on both sides of the discussion. most of the time i do the ATG ATT thing but it sshould be my right and obligation to make the dicision i sometimes make which is that the ATGATT gear on the slowspeed trip from here to wallyworld makes it highly likely that sweat dripping in my eyes is more danger than having a lighter shirt and open helmet. on the side of paladin though , i consciously ride more cautiously when exposed like that.
lotsa miles and smiles to ya
ken
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Post by spandi on Jul 26, 2014 21:13:45 GMT -5
You can never have too much protection   |
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Post by tarkus on Jul 26, 2014 21:25:36 GMT -5
... You are an idiot, period.... I am not one who has had "accidents." Again I quote: You can't reach old age by another man's road. My habits protect my life but they would assassinate you. -- Mark Twain, 70th birthday speech, 1905 If you don't mind, I'll continue to ride the way I ride, that has been protecting me for decades. Somehow im still alive here so ill respond. You have trouble comprehending what you read. I never told you how to ride or what to wear. Read my post again. What I said was only an idiot would make the unfounded statements you made. I don't care if you ride blindfolded. What you thought you read I what I wrote are two completely different things. That fact that you have survived for decades only goes to show that "god looks after drunks and fools." Otto Von Bismarks quote. |
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Post by Paladin on Jul 27, 2014 4:00:12 GMT -5
The statistics, from the U.S. Census Bureau:  www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/1980-07.pdf Table 1110 www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/1992-05.pdf Table 1008 www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/02statab/trans.pdf Table 1069 www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/08abstract/trans.pdf Table 1071 (after 2007) they stopped publishing the number of motorcycle accidents, I assume the death rate continued rising. In the early '60's the Japanese started selling in 1970 - 1980 the number of motorcycles and accidents shot up. In the 1980 MSF got into the act for motorcycle training and helmets laws caused registrations drop, and the accidents went down in 1990 and 2000. Accidents are up in 2004, because the number of motorcycles are rising. Starting in the 1980's the motorcycle manufacturers and magazines have been pushing sport bikes, speed, full face helmet, motorcycle boots, motorcycle pants, jackets, gloves, armor, etc.. And all that protection gear is associated with three times the rate of deaths compared with the late '60's when no gear existed and helmets were not required. Why is the death rate so high when the ATGATT is suppose to protect lives. |
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Post by Paladin on Jul 27, 2014 4:41:02 GMT -5
... What I said was only an idiot would make the unfounded statements you made.... Fine. Stop making unfounded statements. The facts are, since after the push of protective gear the rate of deaths is triple. Why? |
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Post by spandi on Jul 27, 2014 4:56:56 GMT -5
Non sequitur. Specious flawed "logic' As you yourself have noted, the number of motorcycles (and accidents involving them) is rising because the population in general has shot up to roughly double what it was in the 1960's. The behavior of the average driver has also changed (and not for the better) hence the incidences of "Road Rage" a phenomenon virtually unheard of in the past. Just because motorcycle magazines have "pushed" safety gear it does not follow that most or even a good portion of riders buy, or use it. Why else would the modern day euphemism of "squid" come into the common lexicon for someone who foolishly rides without proper protection? But this is pointless, you believe your abilities are more that a match for an infinite number of variables that may arise (something no human mind has the omniscience to anticipate) Let us hope your opinion (for that is what in reality it is) is never put to it's ultimate test.  |
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 27, 2014 5:01:07 GMT -5
Paladin - I have to agree with everyone trying to get through to you. You just don't get it.
You also quote a dead guy that never rode a motorcycle.
ATGATT is safety equipment. Accidents maim and kill, but safety equipment minimizes the damage. You have far less chance of injury and death with SAFETY GEAR.
You can continue to risk your life because of your stubborn hard-headedness, but don't try and convince others to follow you down that high risk, thoughtless route.
Again, your logic is crazy.
Does not wearing a seat belt prevent accidents?
Does not wearing safety shoes prevent something from falling on your foot?
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Post by Kwagga on Jul 27, 2014 5:09:31 GMT -5
... What I said was only an idiot would make the unfounded statements you made.... The facts are, since after the push of protective gear the rate of deaths is triple. Why? Lawlessness. Lack of proper law enforcement and decent training. Nothing to do with ATGATT. |
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Post by tarkus on Jul 27, 2014 5:51:05 GMT -5
The statistics, from the U.S. Census Bureau: www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/1980-07.pdf Table 1110 www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/1992-05.pdf Table 1008 www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/02statab/trans.pdf Table 1069 www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/08abstract/trans.pdf Table 1071 (after 2007) they stopped publishing the number of motorcycle accidents, I assume the death rate continued rising. In the early '60's the Japanese started selling in 1970 - 1980 the number of motorcycles and accidents shot up. In the 1980 MSF got into the act for motorcycle training and helmets laws caused registrations drop, and the accidents went down in 1990 and 2000. Accidents are up in 2004, because the number of motorcycles are rising. Starting in the 1980's the motorcycle manufacturers and magazines have been pushing sport bikes, speed, full face helmet, motorcycle boots, motorcycle pants, jackets, gloves, armor, etc.. And all that protection gear is associated with three times the rate of deaths compared with the late '60's when no gear existed and helmets were not required. Why is the death rate so high when the ATGATT is suppose to protect lives. Now that's funny, no relevant info. Well I could not tell you a thing based on those numbers. Show me where the break down is of what each rider was wearing when they died? Oh that's right it's not there ,what you have done is take accident figures then HYPOTHESIZE as to why got in said accident. I'm done you got nothing to support your claim. Nothing |
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Post by rockynv on Jul 27, 2014 5:57:57 GMT -5
Now posting about squids or hooligans riding high powered bikes at sometimes more than double the posted speed limit and not surviving is not in the same ballpark as advising scooter riders to wear gear to prevent serious injury from comparatively mild events such as getting bumped off balance by a cager coming up from behind while on the cell phone or hitting an invisible slippery spot, having something fall off a truck in the next lane suddenly block yours, having a animal run into them and having an off. The majority of injuries I see are to riders who through no fault of their own went down in street clothes or casual shorts/sandals and got road rash and other injuries that reasonable gear would have 75,  ,  or even 100% prevented. There will always be unreasonable people doing stupid things that will be beyond the range of protection that normal street riding gear provides creating statistics that can be bent in a number of ways however for the responsible rider safety gear is the best second line of defense they have. |
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or even 100% prevented.