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Post by prodigit on Mar 14, 2013 14:33:38 GMT -5
Ian, I think in this case you are going a bit too far.
Not wearing gear does not guarantee a hospital visit.
In fact, I've been on a bicycle since the age of 7, rode scooters since the age of 14, had mopeds, scooters, and motorcycles for a few years now, and I've never had a single accident.
Although I would agree, if you have a wife or kid, you should take responsibility, and use safety gear; if you don't, you're still free to do as you please.
In case of limbs flying around, there's little an armored vest or pants could prevent.
Just like wearing full safety gear, while smacking at 60MPH against a truck coming from the other direction, will not save you, but it could prevent road rash, and head trauma caused by internal bleeding (so at least you won't have roadrash to worry about when the trucker runs you over with it's big 25in wheels).
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Post by payneib on Mar 14, 2013 16:37:44 GMT -5
Not far enough if you ask me. In the UK it's a legal requirement to wear a government approved helmet, even on a 50. That doesn't go far enough.
Some one may not have a spouse and children, but I've never met anyone yet who hasn't had a mother and father for at least part of their lives. Friends. Brothers and sisters maybe. Everyone has someone who's going to be affected very much indeed by their injury, disablement or death.
To say that protective equipment only protects against road rash is quiet frankly ignorant. Nothing will save you from every injury, but the majority can be prevented with the correct equipment.
As it stands, there is nothing anyone can say, or demonstrate, that would get me off this high horse and stop me looking down my nose at people who can't see that what they're doing is idiocy. Freedom can kiss my rear end (and that of the horse) if it doesn't involve responsibility.
Ian
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Post by rockynv on Mar 15, 2013 4:41:11 GMT -5
The world is full of nanny's trying to make other people safe. Why don't people just worry about their safety and let the rest of the people worry about theirs? Roy As long as it does not mean other people suffer, I think no one has a problem. I rather see someone riding defensively, without gear, than someone strapped with protection and armor riding like a nut... Then would you be willing to have gearless riders pay higher insurance rates to cover to higher cost of rehab and hospitalization? Riding like a nut (engaging in a moving violations and illegal agressive riding) is a ticketable offense that puts points on your license and raises your insurance rates so lack of gear should raise the insurance rates too so those that do ride responsably and gear up don't have to pay higher premiums due to the extreme costs of injury that the "Free" experience. People who reduce this to a matter of personal choice that has no impact on other peoples lives really are not considering all the repercussions on the entire rider and social community that occur when a rider goes down and gets injured. Everyone who rides without gear can potentially impact the entire community financially from other riders, family members to their employers, other local buisinesses and government agencies that deal with regulation, enfocement and respose to emergencies and infractions. You basically have your hand in my wallet along with the rest of the community when you flaunt safety. Most people do worry about negative infuences to their finances which is what ungeared riders on our roadways really are. |
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Post by triker on Mar 15, 2013 9:10:48 GMT -5
I knew it wouldn't be long before somebody brought up Insurance. My hand is not in your wallet. The insurance company's are. Insurance is one of the biggest scams in history. Why do you think they are some of the richest company's? I'm not even going to get into government regulations and laws. Just because I don't use all the gear don't mean I ride irresponsibly. I do wear a helmet, eye protection gloves and boots when I ride and I have never had an accident, because I also ride very defensive.
Roy
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Post by prodigit on Mar 15, 2013 16:16:33 GMT -5
There's a clear difference between regions where gear is mandatory, and regions where it is not.
If in your region, wearing a helmet is mandatory, but wearing knee protection is not, then I would not encourage you to ride helmet less (like here in Florida the case is).
However, will you wear full body armor, or will you wear only a helmet? I think that's really upto the rider.
And as much as perhaps knee and elbow protection may not be mandatory in your country, and perhaps people are riding with just a jeans pants, and leather jacket, so in FL it is not mandatory to ride with a helmet; and a lot of people who don't like helmets, generally ride responsively (especially cruiser people).
This brings up a similar question like "can a bartender pour out a beer, whine, or strong drink like a whiskey to a minor?"
If you come from an area, where minors abuse alcohol, get drunk and killed, then no, a bartender can not.
However there are many countries where a bartender would be legally able to do this, because youth in that area are generally not interested in alcohol, like was the case in my country, when I was young.
Only at the age of 12-14 did I acquire a taste for beer, and even then, I drunk only 1 or 2 glasses; being well taught on the effects of drunkenness; and even at that age, in my culture there was no push to get drunk, but there was one, to drink responsibly.
And similarly, on motorcycles, there are a lot of people who through years of experience have paved the way for us motorcyclists and scootards, to ride safely, without a helmet, and who have proven it is possible to ride, without accidents.
Though, I'm sure the more of these wild, untamed, unlearned younger twentiers buy sports bikes, start zigzagging in traffic, and cause accidents, the less freedom there will be even in our state, to choose what kind of head protection you'll wear.
And only if you've ever been in a hot S-Florida summer, with a full faced helmet, will you understand why there still is a law protecting us from wearing a helmet on a 2 wheeler!
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Post by wutzthedeal on Mar 15, 2013 16:37:49 GMT -5
Thank god I have lived a better life than those who live in fear. When you don't follow the same little maze everyone else does through their life you'll learn what freedom really is and quit being scared of breaking the little fence you're following through the hamster maze. The same people who will never take a chance in their life. It's depressing..... well for some, not me. I've lived 3 lives and have 3 more to go. If I get skinned along the way it's just another story I have to tell. The people who did nothing will have to sit in the corner of the nursing home and play bingo while I whip out the pictures of this awesome summer I had. I can't imagine certain ones of you have ever had a day of fun in your whole life. Well, what you think is fun. "they let me out of my cell to go play in the fenced yard, it's sort of like freedom".
Enjoy that cage.......... I'm not the one being counter productive and riding something for freedom then doing everything in my power not to enjoy it properly because I'm afraid I might fall off. LOL What a huge leap of faith! Ever been skydiving? I have; twice. Jumped from 12.5k, opened chutes at 5k; full freefall for 60 seconds or so. I've jumped off bridges, played all 4 years of high school football (always on the edge with big hits), swam distances that should have drowned me, and 1,000 other things that my little "maze" let me do. Tell me, if I'M confined and can do all that, what are you? I'm not afraid to crash my skull on the concrete--all it means is it will take too long (or forever) to heal and I can't be on my scooter because I was a blithering idiot who wouldn't wear safety gear. Your "Give me liberty or give me death" argument here is a straw man argument; protective gear just keeps your hobby from killing you, ideally. So, should mountain climbers not use reserve hooks (or whatever they're called)? Should Navy Seals just skip the scuba gear and hold their breath? I mean, an air tank is awful confining. Maybe astronauts should skip that whole pesky spacesuit. What could go wrong? At least they would die free, right? 
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Post by payneib on Mar 15, 2013 17:27:15 GMT -5
Tell me, if I'M confined and can do all that, what are you? Slight crossing of the wires I think: that's exactly what I was saying. However, will you wear full body armor, or will you wear only a helmet? Full body armour. Every time. And it should be legislated so. Ride as defensively as you like, but there'll always be the idiot you didn't expect. I'm not armouring up because my riding is dangerous. I'm armouring up because I see an empty road and think, "Where's the idiot I can't see over a blind summit, round a bend, or in a concealed entrance?". As for temperature, I've experienced plenty of Floridian summers, and it's no reason to not kit up. There's plenty of mesh armour kits on the market, which while not as comprehensive as full kit, would be sufficient to keep the main contact points off the road. An open face helmet is always better than nothing. Again, you've given me no good reason to ditch my kit, other than, "I wanna". Ian |
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Post by prodigit on Mar 15, 2013 17:34:50 GMT -5
Well, and in choosing to go full armor, you are wise.
But you should not restrict others to do as you please; but everyone has the right to decide for themselves; just like you can't prevent someone from drinking alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or eat fastfood.
Riding a bike or scooter, or motorcycle, automatically puts you to more danger than cars, even with safety gear. Should therefor, we ban motorcycles, scooters and bicycles all together, because cars are safer?
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Post by payneib on Mar 15, 2013 17:52:52 GMT -5
Actually you can stop them smoking. It's illegal in the entirety of the UK to smoke in confined public places, and they've started rolling out the mandatory covering of cigarette stands in shops. I believe that's a process that was started in the US? As for fast food: they've already banned those stupid "supersize" meals that were death in a bun. I personally believe that cars are only safer for the occupants. For every other person on the planet they're significantly more dangerous. Maybe they should ban cars? But that's a side issue. Crash testing, seat belts, basic safety standards, through life vehicle inspections, etc, have been the legal norm in the UK for a significantly long time now, as well as in most developed countries. Why not similar protective standards for the operators of two wheeled vehicles? I have to legally drive a road worthy car and wear a seatbelt, why not make me legally wear protective equipment on my scoot? Simples. Ian |
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Post by prodigit on Mar 15, 2013 18:19:16 GMT -5
I know it's a silly argument, but just for argument's sake, using your logic,
Wearing safety gear is only safer for the occupants; for every other person on the planet, they're more dangerous too..
Lol..
I know what you mean, but in some way, what I just said is true too (eg: when a crashed rider with helmet slams into a pedestrian, compared to one that wears very little safety gear).
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Post by wutzthedeal on Mar 15, 2013 20:14:02 GMT -5
Ian, I quoted the wrong quote; the one I was trying to quote has been inserted into my last post... just hit the wrong button.
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Post by payneib on Mar 16, 2013 0:41:01 GMT -5
Ian, I quoted the wrong quote; the one I was trying to quote has been inserted into my last post... just hit the wrong button. Lol, that's cool I have "sausage finger" moments occasionally myself!  I know what you mean, but in some way, what I just said is true too (eg: when a crashed rider with helmet slams into a pedestrian, compared to one that wears very little safety gear). Lol. I remember a quote from somewhere, that said something along the lines of, "The only way to make car drivers drive more responsibly is to put a ten inch steel spike in the centre of every steering wheel". Like we both said earlier, even the best kit won't protect you from everything, so there's still enough of a threat of death to make most riders ride responsibly (unless they've got one of those airbag suits I think Honda were developing-I'd get one, but knowing my luck it'd go off on its own and I'd end up riding home looking like the Michelin Man lol). I'll leave you with an anecdote from all of two weeks ago. I was just getting geared up after work to ride home when one of the team leaders came in to drop some stuff off for his locker, having been out on his "proper" bike all day with friends. One of the group was "pulled out on" (you know when a cager just pulls out of a side street without looking-I'm sure we've all experienced that) and didn't have a hope in of stopping in time. The sports bike was a total right off (it'd just tried to go through a Volvo after all) and the rider had to decelerate from 60mph (a speed easily achievable on my 125 scoot), using nothing but the roof of the car, the road, and his kit. He walked away with a broken collar bone and a broken wrist. There's no way the OP of this thread, in jeans and a T-shirt would be out of hospital by now in a similar situation, if he wasn't killed outright. Ironically, the guy was the only one of the group wearing a hi-viz vest over his kit. So it just goes to show, it doesn't matter how well you ride, or what you're wearing, there'll always be that one idiot that tries to kill you and you can only hope you're wearing enough protection when he/she does. I've really enjoyed this debate (even if its taken the thread, ever so slightly, off track! Lol). Hopefully our polar-opposite-opinions haven't caused too much offence. Even though we don't agree, I think we kind of get each other now. Maybe you Crazy Americans and this Stuffy Brit should meat up for a ride one day!? Lol Ian. |
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Post by prodigit on Mar 16, 2013 0:49:17 GMT -5
This guy actually has one of those suits on:   |
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Post by JR on Mar 16, 2013 1:31:24 GMT -5
When I was a kid, my safety gear when ride my 90cc and 160cc Honda bikes was a pair of sunglasses that kept the wind and bugs out of my eyes so I could see where I was going. I often wore shorts and a tee shirt was what I almost always had on, of and tenny shoes. I burned my leg on the exhaust several times, I fell onto the sand and gravel while out riding in the desert. When I graduated to a 350 I bought a discount house helmet, back then I don't think they had a full face helmet.
One day I was riding the 30 on a trip and about 40 miles down he road I was going about 90mph and noticed he pavement. With no music to tune into I was thinking about what to would be like o hit that pavement, again I was wearing no more than a tee shirt, I probably had jeans on. I slowed down to about 65 for the rest of the straight road, and slower for the windy mountain road I was coming up to.
Not long after that a fellow came into the emergency room at the hospital I was working in he was riding a big bike on a hilly highway, he ran on top of a trailer as he was coming over a hill, it was a low flatbed trailer. I was amazed, he was going highway speeds and was pretty much uninjured, he was sent home from the ER, he had been wearing leathers.
My next bike was a CB 450, Riding it down the highway one day a old lady started to pull out in front of me scared me quite a bit but did not hit me.
A few year later California passed a helmet law, we have no law to require body armor but I have a set, I admit I don't always wear it, I do always wear a helmet, and not because I am required to.
I was working at another hospital and a friend of mine cam into the emergency room, He was riding his bike, hit a truck and was thrown over the truck and landed on his head and shoulders on the other side of the truck, he was in a coma for a few days, woke up and went home with no ill effects.
Personally I think it is very wise to wear the gear, being told I have to does not sit well with me.
BTW I think California was the first State over on this side of the Atlantic to prohibit smoking in bars and restaurants.
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Post by terrilee on Mar 16, 2013 8:37:39 GMT -5
geewhy not let people do as they want to do?
if you wanna wear full armour, please do
if you dont, dont
dont get into your insurance stuff
they are the biggest scammers in the world
dont worry they have enough money to cover
people not wearing armour
gee check your last hospital bill
that $ aspirin, you got charged for.
UPMC { University of Pittsburgh medical center}
is non profit like most hospitals, insurance companies.
BUT their CEO makes over 35 mill a year, they are the biggest employer in Allegheny county They have spent over 200 million building new hospitals in the area, in the last year.
How can a non profit do this ?
because they charge insurance companies 1000's for everything.
IM VERY TIRED OF BEING MANDATED
we had one nut wanting all companies, to make M/C helmets to be mandated to make anti fog visors by the govt.
sure prisces for a helmet will go over $200 for a piece of jumk, whereas the better ones will go $300
PLEASE STOP TELLING ME WHAT I CAN AND NOT DO
YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, JUST DONT FORCE ME TO LIVE WITH YOUR DECISIONS.
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aspirin, you got charged for. 