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Post by tiopedro on Sept 11, 2013 1:59:43 GMT -5
Hello guys and galls!
I have a 50cc chinese scooter which I ride 4-5 days a week 54km each day, and it has been quite pleasurable and reliable.
BUT.... 3 days ago the temperatures here dropped about 10-13 degrees Celsius so about 20-30 Fahrenheit? Anyways.. since the temperatures decreased, my scooter feels like it is lacking a bit of power, kinda like the carburetor is not tuned properly anymore.. can this change of temperature make a difference in the tuning of the carb?
Also, the exhaust on my scoot its on its last leg, and I am considering a performance exhaust.. but I have a couple of things that I do not understand perfectly..
Will a performance exhaust require a different size carb? and most importantly, will the performance exhaust help with acceleration? (please keep in mind that my scooter is still CDI restricted to a maximum speed of ~50kmh and it has to stay restricted because here the police check the maximum speeds of scooters with a rolling bench)
I know I probably don't make much sence so I will explicitly say my questions.
1) Can a change of 20-30 degrees Fahrenheit require a new care tune-up?
2) will a performance exhaust require further modifications or is it simply plug and play?
3) will a performance exhaust help me accelerate faster?
Thanks!!
Pedro
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Post by prodigit on Sept 11, 2013 14:17:12 GMT -5
Change in temperature does not require a change in carburetor tune up, but when you do, you might get some extra power out of it. Remember to change it back when the temps increase.
Performance exhaust will more than likely cause almost no improvements, especially not on a 50cc. The only improvement might be that the performance exhaust is lighter in weight... That's all.. but if you need to change it anyway, better get a performance exhaust (though I don't know if they make them for 50cc's). Any exhaust with an exhaust tip where you can put your index finger in the hole, is good enough for a 50cc exhaust system.
You might want to consider changing oil to a lighter oil. If you put 10W40 oil in it, try switching to 5W30. 20 degrees colder justifies lighter oil.
Also put some Chemtool B12 in the tank, to clean it out a bit.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 11, 2013 15:28:07 GMT -5
Actually most (all?) carbureted vehicles require tuning as the seasons change. You usually need to increase the idle speed and slightly richen the air/fuel mixture since there is more air available in cold temps than in hotter temps. You will likely see a slight decrease in fuel economy. The adjustments are normal and listed as maintenance or seasonal changes in most Owner's Manuals.
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Post by f4milytime on Sept 11, 2013 15:37:24 GMT -5
Actually most (all?) carbureted vehicles require tuning as the seasons change. You usually need to increase the idle speed and slightly richen the air/fuel mixture since there is more air available in cold temps than in hotter temps. You will likely see a slight decrease in fuel economy. The adjustments are normal and listed as maintenance or seasonal changes in most Owner's Manuals. So you adjust towards richer in cold, and leaner in hot weather ??
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 11, 2013 15:40:38 GMT -5
correct more fuel in cold times and less in hot.
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Post by phssthpok on Sept 11, 2013 16:46:57 GMT -5
To expand on the temp change issue: Air density is affected by temperature (as well as elevation but that's not the topic here). The ideal ( stoichometric) mixture is a 14.7:1 ratio of Oxygen to Gasoline *. The atmosphere contains 'X' amount of oxygen along with various other gasses at any given volume. If you seal off a container of air (say, a tin can), and heat it, the gas will attempt to expand, but being trapped in a rigid container, it will only be able to build pressure...the density remains the same because the volume remains the same. Place the same amount of air in a flexible container (say, a balloon) and heat it, and the container will change volume allowing the gas to physically expand (lose density). Inversely, if you run the same experiment but chill the containers instead of heating them, you get the opposite effect on the balloon...it shrinks (reducing it's volume) as the density of the gas inside increases. Now, to apply this to a carburetor. The mechanical fuel metering system in a carburetor relies upon air pressure differentials to pull fuel into the airstream as it passes through the throat of the carburetor. The carburetor has no way of measuring air density, only air volume as a byproduct of the Venturi effect of the air passing through the carburetor. For any given volume of air, the density (read: concentration) of oxygen molecules will decrease as temperatures increase, and vice-versa. So as temperatures drop, the concentration ( density) of oxygen molecules for any given volume of air passing into the engine will increase, resulting in a 'leaning' effect...more oxygen molecules added to the same amount of fuel (with the opposite happening as temperatures increase). The greater the temperature change, the greater the effect. Eventually the distorted air/fuel ratio will become noticeable as a change in engine performance. Generally this temperature induced distortion can be fixed with just a twist of the mixture screw. You shouldn't have to re-jet unless you run into severe seasonal temperature extremes...like my cabin in Montana which can swing from +38c in the height of summer to -40c in the depths of winter. Too-long, didn't-read version: Yes, temperature CAN affect mixture ratios (carb tune), but in general it's nothing a little twist of the mixture screw can't resolve. * I have always found it interesting that the Stoich. ratio for gasoline is essentially the exact same number as the atmospheric pressure at sea level (in PSI)
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Post by buford1488 on Sept 11, 2013 17:29:53 GMT -5
2-stroke it will...........
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Post by sickopsycho on Sept 11, 2013 19:57:55 GMT -5
While all of the above is "technically" true- You would have had to be running hella lean to begin with for performance to decrease with a temp drop like that. The air does become denser- with more oxygen in it- in cooler temps but IDK if that is your issue. Adjusting the air/fuel on your carb should be a simple process- I would definately try that first. There are instructions on this forum (and all over the internet) on how to do it if you dont know. If that IS your issue- you should be happy because you may have just saved your motor from an untimely demise. =) I usually run mine just a hair rich and cool mornings my bike flies- probably because the mixture is running correctly. =) On the sport exhaust issue- If your bike needs a new exhaust, I'd absolutley go for a performance replacement. They are as cheap or cheaper than a factory type replacement. You most likely wont notice any performance gains, but it might sound cooler and you'll feel cooler and hence- it will seem to go faster. =) If you want more pickup but the cops are stingy in your area go for variator weights. They are dirt cheap, albeit a pain in the to install if you dont have the correct tools. Lighter weights plus maybe a stiffer contra spring can get you up and moving quite a bit faster. Back to the exhaust- a lot of "performance" exhausts you find online DO require light modifications to be done to install them. This would most likely consist of drilling a hole or holes into your frame for a mount. Not a big deal but you should just know in advance if it's a direct replacement or what.
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Post by skuttadawg on Sept 11, 2013 22:47:34 GMT -5
Interesting since to me it seems the opposite as my scoots run so much better when its cool or cold than when it is hot or warm outside . My 2T has a carb and I have to adjust the idle speed when the temps change but my Echarm it is the same no matter the outside or engine temp . I helped a buddy put on a cold air intake on a hot rod Civic that had a long metallic ceramic composition material instead of plastic and it went just below the bumper . At 50 degree and it he went fast it would form frost and run so good . I was shocked to see frost as it was no where near freezing . To me hotter air is thinner since its not as dense as cold air so it would seem too me one would need to be richer in the summer time . When I cracked a piston one scoot and had a soft seize on my 2T it was above degrees outside for both issues . So when its really hot I try to not push it to the max in order to avoid another disaster where in the winter time I get my Echarm redlining ( has a rev limit in the ECU instead of having a CDI box ) and it seems to love it . Note when it very cold I do let my scooter warm up a bit longer than most do prior to riding and wait until it warms up from riding before stretching the rubber band you could say . I know ideal on most engines is to be around 14.75 to 1 air fuel ratio . My scooter dealer has the same 150cc engine as I do but he drilled holes in the airbox , has a muffler for a 250cc that looks like a Cherrybomb and he installed an injector for a 250cc and had to get a plug for a BMW 320i since it was not the same as the 150 injector uses . He took it to a local motorcycle shop that has a dyno and it said it had just over 12 HP at the rear wheel and was at 13 to 1 fuel aspect ratio . I want to do this mod too but it costs just over 100 for part so it will be after the holidays since my kids deserve nice gifts . He said MPG was a bit less and did not have the exact numbers but it ran so much faster and cooler . Ours are LC engines instead of AC like most are . So if you gave proven scientific data please post it or a link to some as to me it seems I would want to be richer in the summer than winter .
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 12, 2013 1:36:39 GMT -5
Sorry no they run better when cold because the mix is leaner. Google your own data or read an owners manual. Less dense means less air by volume and less fuel period simple physics you should of got the data in high school.
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Post by tiopedro on Sept 12, 2013 4:52:22 GMT -5
Wow guys thanks for all the replies.
I will go out and give the carb a quick tune before my ride to school today.. it is in the rain for 50 minutes so I don't really feel like having to play around the tuning on the way there..
As far as the exhaust, thanks for the imput.. I will wait maybe a month or two and get a new one.. or maybe even go thru winter so that the salt finishes eating it up..
Contra spring is the large clutch spring correct? I believe everything in my clutch is stock.. so should it be better to upgrade to a stiffer spring?
I did rollers on it already, changed half to 4.4g and the rest stock (6g i think) which is what I found to be ideal in my case..
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Post by pmatulew on Sept 12, 2013 5:28:09 GMT -5
My 150 runs better in cooler weather also. Skuttadawg, I think that may mean we have the opposite condition where the motor is borderline too rich in warm weather and improves as it leans out in the cool dense air.
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