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Post by flclempire on Aug 16, 2013 12:34:50 GMT -5
Hi, I've recently purchased a taotao paladin 150cc from a brick-and-mortar dealer. Everything has gone well with it so far (I've only put 150 miles on it so far), but I'm getting this horrible rattle/vibration noise coming from the rear right of my scooter. I'm guessing its either the rear tire, or the exhaust/muffler. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I'm quite devoted to learning. Here is a video of the noise. It occurs on road and on the center stand. I place my foot lightly on the muffler and produce the sound again. My foot holding it doesn't help at all, but the vibration goes nuts through my foot the instant the noise starts. It tickled  I've tried tightening up the nut that connects the muffler to the rear hub area, pictured here i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/flclempire/scooter%20stuff/mufflerhubbolt.jpgYes its dusty atm from my garage  I've tried tightening bolts on what I believe to be the swing arm plate, but not the exact nuts that connect the muffler to the swing arm. The tire is very much in the way and there is no way I'm gonna risk my life removing the tire with my current lack of experience. In this pic, I could tighten the bolts directly above and under the engine oil input, but not the 3rd to the upper left. i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/flclempire/scooter%20stuff/mufflerswingbolt.jpgI've also tried tightening the right side axle nut. I actually did manage to tighten slightly, but the muffler is in the way so I couldn't get too much leverage, also the tire was difficult to hold in place. And to remove the muffler I need to remove the rear tire, which I am not comfortable doing yet. When I tightened the axle nut, a slight sound went away that would only sound off when the bike was driving on the center stand. But it didn't help with the big noise at all. It looks like its awfully close to the end of the axle....but idk... i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/flclempire/scooter%20stuff/axlenut.jpgAny suggestions? Do you suppose its the wheel itself, or the exhaust? Or both?! It seems to be riding perfectly safe, although the bike outputs vibrations at 45+mph, but I imagine thats normal for chinese bikes. Sorry for the large post, thank you. |
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Post by ckizer on Aug 16, 2013 13:44:29 GMT -5
On mine that vibration sound was the OUTSIDE plate on the muffler. That little thing was vibrating as the screws came loose but also as it got hot it let the metal become softer and just rattle a little. Try tightening them when the bike is hot? Great photos by the way.
It might be that little arm thing UNDER your muffler, is it still welded tight? Look under the arm under your muffler.
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Post by flclempire on Aug 16, 2013 15:00:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. Thats what I first thought as well! But I actually removed that heat shield from the muffler on day 1 since its completely useless. As for the arm thing, are you talking about the swing arm plate or the little arm thing under the muffler in this picture? i161.photobucket.com/albums/t236/flclempire/scooter%20stuff/mufflerhubbolt.jpgHmm tightening while hot....thats an interesting idea, certainly worth a try. |
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Post by rockynv on Aug 16, 2013 15:11:42 GMT -5
If you recently bought it from a brick and motor dealer then what about the dealer standing behind what he sells? If it is vibrating that bad then there is usually something wrong in the CVT case such as a bad belt, unbalanced clutch, variator with a thrown or missing roller, etc. Muffler vibration is usually a symptom of other problems.
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Post by pmatulew on Aug 16, 2013 17:16:58 GMT -5
The sound quality of the video isn't good enough for me to hear what you're hearing.
Is the wheel itself balanced? Mine was way off. Way way off.
Can those three muffler bolts not be tightened from the outside? The nuts behind may be welded in place so you don't need to be able to access them.
It's possible the problem may be inside the muffler itself. If a tack weld has come loose and one of the baffles is rattling around in there. I've got a Honda ATV that has been making all sorts of buzzing, squealing, and rattling noises for quite a while now.
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Post by flclempire on Aug 16, 2013 19:21:41 GMT -5
The sound I'm worrying about is the semi-high pitch rattle/vibration after I've given it some juice. At the 40-50 second mark of the video demonstrates the rattle quite well, in my opinion.
The wheel itself seems pretty good. I've only experience with true-ing bicycle wheels and this one seems pretty center and has minimal play (especially after I tightened the axle nut). It doesn't create any control problems with driving and breaking either.
If I try to tighten the muffler nuts, the opposite nuts (which I can't reach without removing the wheel) are able to spin in the un-tightening direction, negating any effect I apply. Maybe I can reach the opposite side nuts with my cruddy mid-sized adjustable wrench - just to hold it in place. I'll try that tomorrow. I'll also check for cracks in the arms themselves. I had not considered that.
If something inside the muffler has come loose, wouldn't it rattle before I applied significant acceleration?
Thanks for the replies. You guys are giving me lots of ideas for testing.
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Post by flclempire on Aug 16, 2013 19:24:54 GMT -5
[replyingto=rockynv]rockynv[/replyingto]"If you recently bought it from a brick and motor dealer then what about the dealer standing behind what he sells? If it is vibrating that bad then there is usually something wrong in the CVT case such as a bad belt, unbalanced clutch, variator with a thrown or missing roller, etc. Muffler vibration is usually a symptom of other problems. "
Unfortunately their shop is the *only* brick and mortar shop in town.
They seem pretty legit, but being the only shop in town will probably result in them charging for *any* service. I'll check with them tomorrow to see if they will inspect it for me if I can't service it myself.
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Post by ckizer on Aug 16, 2013 21:18:43 GMT -5
[replyingto=pmatulew]pmatulew[/replyingto]How do you verify wheel balance?
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Post by newbscootdude on Aug 16, 2013 21:22:03 GMT -5
i tried figuring that one out today i called some local scooter shops they say they dont need be balanced.... i was looking at getting new tires..
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Post by ckizer on Aug 16, 2013 21:22:17 GMT -5
Does it stop when you put your foot on the muffler? Get a friend to help you? Often these cheep scooters have metal touching metal. What you can do is put some rubber spacers or washers from the muffler to that plate it connects to. It's probably just metal vibrating from the exhaust system on the plate. Does it sound like it's coming from inside. My bike is perfect, and it does this with my exhaust system which is brand spanking new and it did it with the last exhaust. Just because the metal at high RPM gets the tiny vibration in it. Often car exhaust on non-fuel injected vehicles are this way as well. I don't think it's something wrong but you need a friend to help you listen near exhaust system. I figured mine was a crappy silver plate and the cheep TINY screws that actually hold exhaust together, not the bolts holding it to bike on mine. Even tightening it didn't fix it so I left it alone.
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Post by ckizer on Aug 16, 2013 21:24:41 GMT -5
The other thing I found on mind was the metal around the rear shocks. I twisted them a bit (i think it tightens them so do it evenly) and it made it quieter, have you tried touching those to see if something is banging around?
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 16, 2013 23:07:44 GMT -5
gopd advice pitting pressure on the muffler while reving or riding go see if th sound is def coming from the exhaust. do the same with the header, they also go bad often.
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 17, 2013 6:14:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately their shop is the *only* brick and mortar shop in town. They seem pretty legit, but being the only shop in town will probably result in them charging for *any* service. I'll check with them tomorrow to see if they will inspect it for me if I can't service it myself. It should have a warranty. With only 150 miles on it, I'm guessing you haven't owned it for more than a few weeks. So it should still be in warranty. Even if it isn't, if they're reputable they should still be willing to inspect and fix a problem on a new bike they've sold this recently. If they argue and want to charge you to check the vibration or correct it, then threaten (very nicely--never get loud or aggressive) that you'll tell everyone about this and warn them against going to this shop. That might also get results in your favor. But like I said, be courteous about it and don't pull out this big gun unless they're being really obnoxious about not honoring support of a recent sale. Seriously, they should be very willing to fix it. Just drive it over there, leave it running, and have a shop-guy come listen. Ask "What's causing that?" Betcha' shop-guy will fix it up right then. Let us know what's the cause! >'Kat |
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Post by flclempire on Aug 17, 2013 10:56:30 GMT -5
gopd advice pitting pressure on the muffler while reving or riding go see if th sound is def coming from the exhaust. do the same with the header, they also go bad often. Check the first link I posted. Its a youtube video and I apply my foot to the muffler while revving. The sound doesn't change, but when the sound comes it *really* vibrates the crap out of my foot, which is on the exhaust. |
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Post by rockynv on Aug 17, 2013 20:30:21 GMT -5
The bike would usually be doing what is affectionatly known as a stand dance if the wheel was terribly out of balance however yours is not doing a stand dance at all so the rear tire and rim should be pretty close to balanced.
What I do hear is a bit of gear whine and possibly an internal muffler rattle from a broken weld on a baffle. I would verify that the shipping oil was changed and replaced with a good quality lubricant before riding it any further and definately see what the dealer has to offer.
If you paid much over the $900 on-line price then you are resonable to expect the dealer to take care of issues that they should have caught during their predelivery inspection and setup of the bike.
From this other video it seems that they may have used the wrong length belt (too long) or old belts that would tend to slap too much and that some of the swing arm bolts are vibrating loose from it:
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