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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 20:03:14 GMT -5
My aftermarket exhaust is great for performance but its too loud, but most of the other stuff i did was after changiong the exhaust. Weights, cdi, coil etc. Im worried if i go through the hassle of removing the new exhaust and puting on the stock one back on performance will suffer. How many are happy running the quiet stock exhaust with the types of upgrades Ive done?
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Post by jeffery5568 on Aug 6, 2013 20:34:31 GMT -5
I still have my stock exhaust I put a cone filter in little bigger jet and I could tell a little differance
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Post by prodigit on Aug 6, 2013 21:25:29 GMT -5
Drill out the stock?
That being said, I found very little performance improvements running the stock exhaust vs a drilled out one.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 21:33:45 GMT -5
Mine is a straight through muffler that only "looks" like a muffler lol
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 6, 2013 22:23:20 GMT -5
Redroush00, I was happy BEFORE the exhaust change.
Over the last five years (and it's STILL running... LOL!) I've made most of the same mods you have. Changing my exhaust was the LAST mod I made (simply because the OEM muff fell apart, as they do) and the scoot ran great with the stock muffler. It was the bigger-diameter header I used that seems to have made a big difference.
It appears in pix, that your new header is a full-diameter (1-inch inside). THAT large header, in my opinion is more important than how the muffler itself is set up. I don't think the stock muffs are nearly as bad as they are thought to be. All your other mods are viable regardless of the muffler.
That's a REALLY nice muffler. I'm surprised it's too loud for you, even if straight-through. It likely has a perforated core surrounded by fiber-glass. Still, you need it to sound appropriate for your needs. Being brand-new, I'm sure you could list it here and sell it for a good portion of what it cost, and recover much of what you spent, to offset the cost of a new one.
I'm not sure what muffler will be best for you. There are "factory-style" muffs out there which may (or may not) be better quality than the truly POOR quality stockers. They surely couldn't be any worse! And, they'd still probably last a couple of years.
Whatever you choose, hooked up to that chrome header, it will surely still provide excellent performance using all your previous mods. The only change I could envision might be a slightly rich condition compared with the straight-through. I doubt that would even be "off" enough to require a leaner re-jet.
Don't worry about all your previous mods going to waste... they won't!
Sincerely,
Leo in Texas
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Post by rockynv on Aug 6, 2013 22:24:17 GMT -5
On my Lance Vintage I just tuned up the carb setting the slide needle for optimum engine performance for good low end takeoff and engine torque throughout the rpm range, upgraded to a hotter CDI and coil without extreme advance that would have potentially required a cam change, upgraded the variator to a Hoca large diameter performance model staying with the standard 12 gram rollers, standard clutch and Gates Premium belt. I also put better grade bearings in the gear box while I was at it. Drive train harmonics and vibrations rob you of performance as it takes power to cause them and at 8 to 12 hp a GY6 150 doesn't have much if any to spare so that being said sometimes just going through the CVT and eliminating all sources of harmonics such as marginal bearings, out of balance clutch, variator drive faces not true, belt too long, dried out belt that sat too long with hard bends set in it where it went around the variator or clutch pullies, etc can get you a remarkable increase in usable power transfered to the drive wheel. Proper tire inflation to match the load on the bike without going over the max rating of the tire can also make quite a difference. Underinflate the tires on a pedal bike and see how that compares to filling them up to the correct inflation values and see what a difference that makes in the effort to pedal it. With the stock side mount air box and OEM Vintage style muffler per GPS verified readings I was getting a solid 65 mph on the flats and could maintain 60 mph on moderate inclines with a 6' 250 lb rider. Fuel economy (mpg) was only in the upper 40's at speeds over 40 mph which with a 1.4 gallon tank was not to my advantage making it so I had to stop for gas at least twice a week. If I had kept the bike I was going to put my exhaust gas analyzer on it and take realtime measurements of the fuel mix under load so I could verify where I may have been running rich or too lean and fine tune it a bit from where it was with the stock carb jets but I got a sweet deal on the fuel injected Aprilia 250 which stock gets me past  mph and gives me between 75 and 80 mpg in the city and 65 mpg on the expressway. That combined with a 2.4 gallon tank puts me at about 10 days between fillups and a much lower overall cost of operation compared to my Vintage bike. |
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Post by millsc on Aug 7, 2013 0:13:47 GMT -5
I've done big bore kits with and without the exhaust, not sure the performance exhaust does much besides sound even though i love the sound, my black galaxy with the hoca gears and totally maxed was the same speed pretty much as my wives pink scoot with airsal cam and uni. Actually hers was faster block to block, so maybe more is less in some cases. But me being me i'll always do more, i have a 150cc on the way already picked my mods.
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Post by sailracer on Aug 7, 2013 3:24:01 GMT -5
I've ben thinking about that very same thing,noise vs mods. I have the same type exhaust as leo.( mine is not modified. I looked all over for a performance muffler with an expansion chamber and a bigger header pipe, and it looks like they don't make em! technigas and a couple of others i think naraku has them, but when I asked about the header diameter, they saic oh around.700 or .7 something. .750 being 3/4", i cant see spending 200.00 cause mine is already the same. I guess the only way to improve it is to do what leo did. Maybe we could make 2t exhaust systems with 1" header pipes. for 50cc 4 strokes and get rich! LOL. Meantime ,if you can find an exhaust with an expansion chamber, get it they perform better, and they are quiet.
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Post by rockynv on Aug 7, 2013 4:05:39 GMT -5
Most don't consider handling when they mod a bike for more speed. If I were to mod my current bike I would start with putting adjustable Gold Valves in the front forks so I could adjust the dampening a bit and also while I was at it add the correct sized spring spacers to tune the preload to my weight, add a MotoGuzzi fork brace to also further improve things up front and add some resevoir shocks with adjustable dampening to the back of the bike.
The bike already can get to within a few mph of 100 so a little porting and polishing of the stock 4 valve head and an attenuator to richen up things by modifying the feedback from the oxygen sensor may be all I would do to start with. The bike would then be a bit faster to 70 and get a few more mpg in the city as they are set a tad too lean to meet the more stringent Euro3 standards. The bike would also run a bit cooler with the slightly richer fueling. Some Dr Pully sliders may be a consideration too however the Piaggio variator is pretty well balanced as set up by Aprilia Racing.
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Post by ltdhpp on Aug 7, 2013 11:27:06 GMT -5
My 150 absolutely woke right up after exhaust and a re-jet. If you don't like the noise, get a muffler with a removable silencer - both I've had were not too loud.
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Post by jerseyboy on Aug 7, 2013 12:03:42 GMT -5
More air in,,more air out=Cooler,more efficient running motor (*
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 7, 2013 12:26:37 GMT -5
I've ben thinking about that very same thing,noise vs mods. I have the same type exhaust as leo.( mine is not modified. I looked all over for a performance muffler with an expansion chamber and a bigger header pipe, and it looks like they don't make em! technigas and a couple of others i think naraku has them, but when I asked about the header diameter, they saic oh around.700 or .7 something. .750 being 3/4", i cant see spending 200.00 cause mine is already the same. I guess the only way to improve it is to do what leo did. Maybe we could make 2t exhaust systems with 1" header pipes. for 50cc 4 strokes and get rich! LOL. Meantime ,if you can find an exhaust with an expansion chamber, get it they perform better, and they are quiet. He found a great 1" I.D. chrome header and matching muffler that is close to "bolt-on" for most 150's. If you want to go with the expansion-chamber can, they show up on eBay new for around $50. You would have to do like I did, and cut off the 50cc header part, and graft the chamber to the new header, but that's not hard. With clamps and muffler sealant it goes right together. 1-inch chrome headers alone, like Jeepsteve's run around $50 shipped. While I made my own from a generator header and flex-exhaust tubing, it still cost me around $30 to make, plus considerable time. The nice, straight, bolt-on chrome header is a better overall setup. The matching muffler like Jeepsteve's fits right onto it too. Check eBay for GY6 exhaust to find the header, and GY6 50 exhaust, or chamber exhaust to look for an expansion chamber can. Searches under "scooter exhaust" and any other title you can think up will turn up all sorts of interesting items. Puerto Rican vendors sometimes have chamber exhausts made for 150's. I got one, I believe made for a Vento, but it's HEAVY, has all sorts of mounting tabs that don't match up with anything on my Xingyue, AND it STILL uses the undersized header (which is even at the wrong angle for my head).Hope this helps!Leo in Texas PS: If you use the good 1-inch header, I believe most mufflers would perform well. I just favor the "chamber" for its excellent scavenging, combined with low noise level. Probably any "performance" muffler would perform well, including small auto glasspacks, or RV or generator muffs. |
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Post by sailracer on Aug 7, 2013 13:53:04 GMT -5
[replyingto=oldchopperguy]oldchopperguy[/replyingto]yeah, but I love my exhaust with the chamber. It performs better than a regular muffler, and it does it without exessive noise!I will probably "graft a 1" header onto it like you did.Maybe get a premade one, and weld it onto the chamber.Might have to bend and adjust a little. I still think that a 1" ready made exhaust like that is a good idea.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 8, 2013 0:12:34 GMT -5
yeah, but I love my exhaust with the chamber. It performs better than a regular muffler, and it does it without exessive noise!I will probably "graft a 1" header onto it like you did.Maybe get a premade one, and weld it onto the chamber.Might have to bend and adjust a little. I still think that a 1" ready made exhaust like that is a good idea. I prefer the running characteristics of the chamber exhaust too. It's not too hard to connect it to a header, and the end-result is pretty sweet!
Enjoy the ride!Leo in Texas |
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Post by skuttadawg on Aug 8, 2013 1:57:05 GMT -5
I removed the airbox lid on a 2T and a 4T 50 and it bogged so bad I did not leave the driveway since I did not change the jetting . A Uni will have more air flow and noise and will require upjetting as would from going from a restricted exhaust to one that is not restricted . Now you can run without a muffler if you upjet enough but may get a ticket from it being loud as many Harley riders do . You can not run without a pipe as it helps remove heat from the head and without it it would burn up . A buddy who drinks too much broke his muffler and a few days broke the pipe off too . I warned him to get a new exhaust and even gave him a GY6 jet kit . Well he ignored my warning and it got so hot that the exhaust valve head broke off and ate up the head , piston and cylinder . On a 2T having a free flowing pipe with expansion chamber improve top end once the jetting is redone . My Echarm has Ducatti EFI . One day I took off the airbox lid and filter and rode around . It did seem to help initial takeoff response but no top end gain . I let it cool and removed the muffler as mine is clamped onto the pipe where many it is welded together . Again bottom end gain , waaaaaaaaaaay loud but would only go 60 instead of 75 MPH . My header is larger in diameter than the GY6 150s as I bought a muffler for a 250cc and had to bore the the connector plate on the muffler with a Unibit . It did not have built in brackets so I had to use the strap inculded and an additional strap and bracket kit I bought . Sound was awesome as it was like a Honda XR250 sound but no gain on top end . My scooter dealer has a CFMoto Glory which has the same engine as mine but with a diff body . He has the same muffler and he had to MacGyver it to fit . He went the extra mile and installed an injector for a 250cc and had to buy an adapter plug for a BMW 325i as it had a diff type of plug . He also used a Dremel to grind the variator ramps . He had it dynoed at the rear wheel and it was 12.5 HP with a 13 to 1 fuel aspect ratio . Most are around 14.75 to 1 . He told me he hit 86 MPH with a car Garmin GPS unit . He drilled two holes in the airbox too . The airbox does not choke the air flow like it looks like it does . Two holes drilled can improve airflow and will need rejetting . The airbox is great to protect water from getting into the carb , throttle body if equipped and the engine . A Uni or K&N style do allow more air intake , but without head porting and unrestricted exhaust may bottle neck the flow . On my 2T 50 I replaced the airbox with a small Uni that is a vent cover and not an airfilter . I went from a 75 MJ to a MJ and it improved takeoff and midrange with same top end . It did make more noise than the airbox with the extra flow of an open air filter . Well I later bought the proper red Uni airfilter , sprayed it with Uni filter oil . My dealer only had a 90MJ and no other scooter or motorcycle shop had any jet that was the size and type I needed . Well it idled ok and only had a slight bog but not like it was stalling . I only wanted to test ride around the block . Dang it soft seized , even melted the tip off of the spark plug and I had to push it home . It was 96 degrees outside grrrr . I let it cool and it would not restart . Compression was only 60 PSI which is half of what it should be on a 2T 50cc . I had to tear it apart and sure enough the rings were fried with the piston and cylinder scared up . I put on a BBK , reused the Uni and installed a racing pipe . Takeoff was less since unrestricted it did not have the back pressure like the stock pipe and once I had the jetting right was amazing how much more power I had at midrange and top end with it going way beyond the 50 MPH limit of the speedo display . I have made a few 150 riders mad as I outran them and told them it was a 50 with an exhaust leak hehee . When I was 16 I bought a used racing Honda CR125 that had a .030 BBK . It ran good at first but soon had a power loss . I pulled off the head and saw the piston had so much clearance in the cylinder I could jiggle it . I got it bored to .060 over , and bought .060 over piston . Well it was a beast but ran hot as I did not upjet . I worried I would crack the cylinder from heat and a rock busted a big hole in the pipe that made it not run good at all . I went back to the machine shop and had a chromoly sleeve pressed in and bought a WiseCo piston instead of a Honda one . I could tell it was much better quality , forged , larger ports , shorter skirt and was lighter . I threw away the old pipe and bought a Pro Circuit pipe as thought it included a muffler but it did not and I threw away the old one like a dummy . I installed a way too large MJ which if you tried to trail ride it , it would bog then ZING like an angry bee . I also put in 250cc clutch springs since they were stiffer than 125 springs . The parts broke me so I rode it for two weeks without a muffler . It was so darn loud it made my ears ring and anyone I rode nearby as well . A buddy who lives 4 miles away could hear me in the woods near my house . I put on a muffler which helped unreal loud noise and it did perform better than without a muffler . I could smoke a stock 125 and trail close behind a stock YZ250 even though the 250 had way more power . If you have a 4T 50 and want to get a BBK then I would get the big valve head from Scrappy which is ported like MillSC had on his hotrod . I think he used a 24 ( wow big ) mm carb without the intake spacer , Uni and after market exhaust |
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mph and gives me between 75 and 80 mpg in the city and 65 mpg on the expressway. That combined with a 2.4 gallon tank puts me at about 10 days between fillups and a much lower overall cost of operation compared to my Vintage bike.
jet
