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Post by jskyking on Jun 27, 2013 11:36:03 GMT -5
I am in process of replacing the clutch and while I'm at it, I am replacing the variator as well. Because of my weight ( 225#) and the neighboring geography ( hilly), I am going to a 1000# torque spring with 1000" clutch springs.
Curious to know if anyone has recommendations in the variator roller weight application?
It is a gy 6 Rocketa 150cc.
thx
jt
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Post by tvnacman on Jun 27, 2013 12:57:12 GMT -5
What is your goal top or bottom end ?
John
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Post by jskyking on Jun 27, 2013 17:31:28 GMT -5
a happy medium
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Post by tvnacman on Jun 28, 2013 6:04:35 GMT -5
What are your rpm at top speed ?
John
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 29, 2013 0:08:57 GMT -5
Jskyking,
I just got done doing the variator on my Xingyue 150 (should be a very similar scooter to yours). Here's what I did, and the results.
First, I weigh 235, and my area is slightly hilly too. My clutch is bone-stock, but suits me fine as-is. It engages smartly around 3,000 rpm and is smooth as silk, with 3,500 miles and 5 years riding on it, as well as the original Gates Power-Link belt.
My new variator is a Prodigy. It came with 12, 13 and 14-gram rollers. I originally used the 13-gram, as they were "middle of the road". I got a top-speed increase of 55 mph @ 6,700rpm, from 50-52 mph @ 8,500 rpm, with the original variator. I also got very low-rpm in-town cruise. All that was fine, except that acceleration was lacking, and hill-climbing ability was reduced.
So, I put in the 12-gram rollers. THAT made TOO much difference the other way. FAST acceleration, but top-speed of 48 mph at an unreasonable 9,000 rpm.
So, I split the difference with 3 each 12-gram and 3 each 13-gram rollers. This seems to be the best overall setup for me as of now. Top speed dropped to about 52 mph @8,000 rpm, and acceleration and hill-climbing is very good.
With this arrangement, I can "work" the variator like it should be. I can accelerate hard quickly, then back off on the throttle and the speed still increases nicely. In five riding seasons, this is the first time I've felt the CVT tranny work in a controllable manner (like the "pricey" imports... LOL!).
I'd love to be able to run 55 mph, but my scoot is running perfectly, and I believe I've done everything possible to maximize performance except for changing the gears. I was totally amazed that a 1-gram change in the rollers could go from too-heavy to too-light. The mix of 12 and 13-grams gives me the equivalent of 12.5-grams, and everything just "feels right". I may try the 13's again some time, and see if I can live with them. I do like the extremely low-rpm running, but the engine really doesn't get much into the "sweet-spot" of 7-8K rpm. Everything's a trade-off.
I truly hope this may at least give you a starting-point... I've done a lot of tweaking, and for now, feel the over-all performance I now have is optimal for my particular scooter.
Hope my experiences may help!
Ride safe,
Leo in Texas
PS: My engine has only been modded to correct "factory-defects" so common on these. The carb has a richer main-jet, and the needle adjusted for bog-free acceleration, and uses a UNI-"sock" filter.
The CDI has been upgraded to a "blue" eBay cheapie. The coil was replaced with a Japanese Bando "orange" coil, and the spark-plug is an iridium.
The exhaust is a baffle-free expansion-chamber style for a 50cc GY6, mated to a home-made 1-inch inside-diameter header.
I'm not a hot-rodder, but each of the above mods were done ONLY to correct VERY poor performance from the original factory parts. The engine now runs simply "as it should"... Some run fine stock, hope yours does! But, many like mine do not. They require tweaking. Not too expensive, or difficult, just a pain in the butt time-wise.
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Post by alleyoop on Jun 29, 2013 0:20:32 GMT -5
You should try 13gram Dr. Pulley Sliders they would be equvialant to the 12 grams rollers in take off but gain a little more top end speed and at a lower rpm.
Alleyoop
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 29, 2013 0:25:56 GMT -5
You should try 13gram Dr. Pulley Sliders they would be equvialant to the 12 grams rollers in take off but gain a little more top end speed and at a lower rpm. Alleyoop You always have good advice... It is appreciated!Leo |
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Post by alleyoop on Jun 29, 2013 0:39:07 GMT -5
Here is my Prodigy and look at the mark left on the Variator and the shiny part about 1/8 from the edge. You should mark your Variator and I would bet your mark left is pretty far down which points to the weights being to light. You should not have trouble reaching your 55 or so with your high rpms. With the sliders the rpm change will be only from 200-350 where as with rollers the rpms change by 500-600. Alleyoop  |
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Post by joaoeu on Jun 29, 2013 1:46:46 GMT -5
You should weigh your current roller weights, so you can make an educated guess what steps to do next.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 29, 2013 11:18:05 GMT -5
Here is my Prodigy and look at the mark left on the Variator and the shiny part about 1/8 from the edge. You should mark your Variator and I would bet your mark left is pretty far down which points to the weights being to light. You should not have trouble reaching your 55 or so with your high rpms. With the sliders the rpm change will be only from 200-350 where as with rollers the rpms change by 500-600. Alleyoop
Interesting! I believe my "shiny" unused edge is actually slightly smaller than yours. When revving on the center-stand, the belt goes to within about 1/16" of the outer edge of the variator. 200 miles of riding shows the wear pattern to be about the same. I really did not give the 13-gram rollers an extended test. They just seemed pretty "boggy" and the magic 55 mph was reached below even the engine's supposed "sweet-spot". I just figured the 12's would be ideal, and was I ever wrong!I was disappointed that while the engine now reaches around 8K rpm, the top-speed did drop BACK to the 51-53 mph as always. The 12-gram rollers put the rpm WAY up to around 9K but with a top-speed of only about 45 mph. THAT nearly duplicated the ORIGINAL performance the scoot always had with the stock variator. Stock, it would run about 48-50 mph but at a screaming 9,500 to 10,000 rpm. The ONLY time I have been able to reach 55 on the level was with the 13-gram rollers, and THAT was at a mundane 6,800 -7,000 rpm. I guess it's possible that my individual engine reaches its sweet-spot at a lower rpm than most...?From what you've said, it could be the Dr. Pulley 13-gram SLIDERS might be the answer. I WAS sort of hoping I'd find the belt NOT going out to the edge of the variator, but it's getting out there. These scoots vary SO MUCH from one to another... I suppose mine might even have shorter-than-average final gears. Experiencing 45 mph at 9K+ rpm, then, 55 mph at less than 7K rpm makes little sense to an old clutch n' gears biker... LOL! My biggest frustration now is that with the mix of 12 and 13-gram rollers, the scoot runs better than it EVER has, from idle to WOT. SNAPPY, neck-bending take-off, STRONG acceleration to 45 mph or so, PULLS HARD up hills, or with a passenger... and absolutely NO bog, hesitation, stutter, etc. anywhere from stopped, to top-speed. Only gripe, it just stops short of the 55+ mph I'd like to see. For 98% of my riding, it's SO good that I almost hate to mess with it. At WOT, the slightest down-hill condition sends it right up to near 60 mph. But level off, and it drops right back to 53 but the rpm stay just over 8K. No more, no less. Even on a slight up-hill, it maintains 53 mph. Could be that at 235 pounds, I'm just a little too heavy... It happens! One thing I have NOT tried, is an uneven mix of rollers: two 12-gram, and four 13-gram. Looking at the variator, THAT doesn't look like a good idea, and seems "off-balance". I think I'll try the 13-gram rollers once more, giving them a thorough test, and then the Dr. Pulley 13-gram sliders. Worst-case scenario, the doggone thing runs truly GREAT as-is right now... Better than it EVER has at ANY rpm. And I very seldom need more than 50 mph speed. I can live with that if I can't improve it. I probably should be grateful that a Chinese scooter is still running well in its fifth season anyway... LOL!Thanks so much for your help!Sincerely, Leo |
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Post by alleyoop on Jun 29, 2013 11:43:42 GMT -5
Running on the stand is way different than when you have a load on it. Mark the belt 1/2 by 1/2 inch and see how much of a mark is left. Then you will know for sure if the weights are to light, If it leaves a mark like you say it does near the edge with a load THEN you will know your gears are holding you back and that is all she wrote unless you put in taller gears.
Alleyoop
The 4 bangers 150s make their max HP around 7500 rpms, the redline on them is around 8k but even at 8k the motor is screaming.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 29, 2013 11:55:19 GMT -5
Running on the stand is way different than when you have a load on it. Mark the belt 1/2 by 1/2 inch and see how much of a mark is left. Then you will know for sure if the weights are to light, If it leaves a mark like you say it does near the edge with a load THEN you will know your gears are holding you back and that is all she wrote unless you put in taller gears. Alleyoop The 4 bangers 150s make their max HP around 7500 rpms, the redline on them is around 8k but even at 8k the motor is screaming. Right on the money! I'll do the marker routine and see for sure if the belt's going out there. I have a STRONG suspicion it is getting out there, and the gearing is holding it back. I really don't care to mess with the gears, if possible, as I'm not familiar with them at all. I think a local dealer might just trade me a new Kymco for my scoot and an assault-rifle... TEMPTING! I haven't much needed an AK-47 lately... but I use the scoot all the time... LOLOLOL!I test-rode the Kymco... SWEET! Smooth, and runs right up to 58 mph with me aboard... Although I AM pretty "attached" to "Lil' Bubba" after all the wrenching we've been through... LOL!Thanks again as always! Leo PS: My tach is accurate within 200 rpm, and it goes clear to 14K. It's factory redline-marked at 10K. I agree with you though, as above 8,500 rpm, mine does actually lose power, showing it's only abusing the engine, with no increase in power. |
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Post by jerseyboy on Jun 29, 2013 12:22:41 GMT -5
[replyingto=alleyoop]alleyoop[/replyingto]I got 13 gram sliders coming,I'm 175 Lbs,,Ill let y'all know how she operates.
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Post by alleyoop on Jun 29, 2013 12:44:03 GMT -5
Jerseyboy, Mark your current variator like this run it and then after you put in your other weights mark it again. That way you will know what each weight change is doing ALSO if you have a tach mark down the rpms for each as well, that will help you tune your CVT to how you like it. Alleyoop  |
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Post by jerseyboy on Jun 29, 2013 15:32:47 GMT -5
[replyingto=alleyoop]alleyoop[/replyingto]Thanks Alley!!
I want the belt to ride up as high as possible right?
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
